Le groupe français 2016 - 2023 Les Voyageurs

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Fortheo
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby Fortheo » Sun Dec 25, 2022 1:01 am

[*]
Carmody wrote:Fortheo »

I absolutely love that avatar of yours. I do not know how you came by it but it is a treasure.


It's a character from a comedy cartoon called Bob's Burgers. I've always found the expression she is making to be applicable to many different situations in life :D

Nice to see you Carmody. I hope you're having good holidays if you celebrate them :)
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MorkTheFiddle
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Sun Dec 25, 2022 6:19 pm

My French r is just what I picked up at the beginning, sophomore in college. None of my four French instructors complained about it, nor any of the French I met in my short time spent in France. Does that mean my r is perfect? No, it probably means it's not that big a deal.
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Many things which are false are transmitted from book to book, and gain credit in the world. -- attributed to Samuel Johnson

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Le Baron
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby Le Baron » Mon Jan 02, 2023 1:00 pm

I caught this snippet at France Inter (about 8 minutes long) about the official incorporation into the Petit Robert of the neutral pronoun iel. It's not major news here because I've seen it mentioned on this forum before. It has also been in the press quite a bit.

I've heard it used in podcasts and sometimes on news items, but as the linguist in the piece says it's a word mostly used by people under-30 and that a lot are sceptical because it is seen as interfering in an already fixed and known system of language structure which everyone learns young (grammar, orthography etc). Though the official education doesn't trump the growth and use of language outside those confines, which is how many of these words arise at all.

It was interesting that she indicated that Larousse and Petit Robert follow divergent paths; Larousse now tending towards language conservation and Petit Robert recording language currents. I'm in the middle. I don't know that just taking up current buzzwords is always such a great idea, because although a dictionary should be, as she says a 'mirror' of actual language use, it also has some influence on word usage. I have several examples of dictionaries of 'obsolete' words that have fallen out of the dictionary and quite often it is because the use of an interpolated foreign word was promoted and maintained. Whereas trendy words often themselves disappeared within a generation, but are now eagerly recorded by trendy lexicographers.

Not that I think iel is a worthless or merely trendy word. Though I see uncertainty in how it is used. Quite a lot of people aren't sure about how to form associated grammar after employing it. You see/hear 'iel' then distinctly masculin/feminin grammatical structures, rather than neutral, and unlike in English where the associated elements in a sentence aren't gendered, this is problem for gendered languages. You can see that discussion in this article from 2021.

L’Office québécois de la langue française seemingly advises not to simply default to iel. To quote:
Il encourage plutôt l’emploi de la rédaction épicène.

So with an example:

- Je vous présente Camille Beaudoin, scientifique de renom qui se consacre à la recherche sur le cancer. (Camille est une personne non binaire.)

- Je vous présente madame Camille Beaudoin, une scientifique renommée qui se consacre à la recherche sur le cancer. (Camille est une femme.)

- Je vous présente monsieur Camille Beaudoin, un scientifique renommé qui se consacre à la recherche sur le cancer. (Camille est un homme.)

This is something which will stretch well into this century.
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Carmody
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby Carmody » Sun Jan 15, 2023 9:06 pm

People often discuss the meaning of a single word here, so, I thought I would bring one that I came across in my reading of Voltaire's Candide: Sanbenito.

It is not in the Reverso Dictionary but I did find it here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanbenito
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nooj
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby nooj » Tue Jan 17, 2023 9:00 pm

Le Baron wrote:Sometimes I have the idea of going about in France, specifically northern regions, deliberately using older southern pronunciations with an Spanish/Italienate rolled 'r' and rejecting 'correction' just to annoy everyone.


I do this. I live a few kilometres from the French border, so I have many opportunities to go to the French state. When I speak French with French citizens, I do so with the alveolar tap [ɾ] as well as the alveolar trill [r], whereas most French native speakers born in the European part of France today pronounce it [ʁ]. I'm perfectly capable of pronouncing [ʁ], indeed that's how I first learned French, but I purposefully decided to change how I speak.

What may superficially seem like a Mediterranean realisation of the rhotic is not in fact, limited only to the south of France. It was once common in the whole north of France, and it still persists in the north of France as well, just as it does in the south of France...in the mouths of our venerable elders. If you go to the Côtes-d’Ahaot (Côtes d'Armor) in eastern Brittany and you talk with people over the age of 75, you will be surprised!

In the following video (trigger warning, they vividly slaughter an animal), you can hear plenty of [ɾ] or [r] in the Occitan of these French citizens...many of these speakers transfer that into their French.

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زندگی را با عشق
نوش جان باید کرد

DaveAgain
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby DaveAgain » Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:02 pm

TV5Monde reception.

I just took a look at the TV5Monde website, and I noticed that they now claim to have TV apps. I don't think my TV is supported, but perhaps yours is?

https://www.tv5monde.com/reception/
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Le Baron
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby Le Baron » Tue Jan 31, 2023 3:38 pm

DaveAgain wrote:TV5Monde reception.

I just took a look at the TV5Monde website, and I noticed that they now claim to have TV apps. I don't think my TV is supported, but perhaps yours is?

https://www.tv5monde.com/reception/

It only defaults to the page showing me how I can receive the channel via satellite or cable (plus list of 3 cartel cable TV suppliers). Three or four years back TV5 was in the basic free-to-view cable service you could get here. BBC1 and 2 were also in that. They switched it off and directed everyone to expensive cable companies.
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DaveAgain
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby DaveAgain » Tue Jan 31, 2023 4:08 pm

Le Baron wrote:
DaveAgain wrote:TV5Monde reception.

I just took a look at the TV5Monde website, and I noticed that they now claim to have TV apps. I don't think my TV is supported, but perhaps yours is?

https://www.tv5monde.com/reception/

It only defaults to the page showing me how I can receive the channel via satellite or cable (plus list of 3 cartel cable TV suppliers). Three or four years back TV5 was in the basic free-to-view cable service you could get here. BBC1 and 2 were also in that. They switched it off and directed everyone to expensive cable companies.

Yes, but one of the ways is via "Appli" > Smart TV applications. Perhaps you aren't shown that option?
Appli
Amazon Fire Stick / Smart TV
Available in HD

Live channel, Replay and Kids content.

Avalaible for free on Samsung TV, Android TV, Amazon Fire Stick, Sony, TCL, Panasonic, Phillips.
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Le Baron
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby Le Baron » Tue Jan 31, 2023 4:18 pm

For some reason it doesn't show me that. However, I have other ways of accessing TV5. 8-)
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DaveAgain
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby DaveAgain » Tue Jan 31, 2023 4:23 pm

Le Baron wrote:For some reason it doesn't show me that. However, I have other ways of accessing TV5. 8-)
I think it reacts to your IP address to show you your local option. I just thought everyone would see they have a Smart TV option.

In other news that might interest you, I found an Arthur Koestler interview lurking on the Radio France website.
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