Classical Languages - Study Group

An area with study groups for various languages. Group members help each other, share resources and experience. Study groups are permanent but the members rotate and change.
vonPeterhof
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Re: Classical Languages - Study Group

Postby vonPeterhof » Sun Sep 01, 2024 2:42 pm

Xenops wrote:I decided to deep-dive into Biblical Hebrew. What resources do people recommend? There’s so many. :oops:

Thomas O. Lambdin's Introduction to Biblical Hebrew is pretty good as far as academic textbooks go. This YouTube series is also pretty good if you prefer audiovisual materials where grammar is more "internalized" than explicitly explained, but I do have to make a couple of caveats about it though. First, since I never did it in its entirety I'm not sure just how far it will actually take you. And second, they use a somewhat idiosyncratic pronunciation model (basically mostly Modern Hebrew, except for a few conspicuously non-Modern consonants) which might be a deal breaker if you have a preferred pronunciation in mind.
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księżycowy
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Re: Classical Languages - Study Group

Postby księżycowy » Sun Sep 01, 2024 6:23 pm

I've used a plethora of resources (mostly beginner stuff), and while I like Lambdin (in theory, I've never actually used him), I'd recommend other resources. What type of learning do you like?

I found Kittel, et al. fantastic for diving into the actual text and getting bites out of grammar and vocabulary. The approach is very inductive. This was the textbook I used a few years ago, when I was getting back into Hebrew after a long break.

I've used Page Kelley's grammar, on the very explicit side of instruction. I definitely appreciate his dedication to detail (especially now, as I want to get into the high levels). I used this while doing my Master's. At the time I hated it, but I've grown to appreciate it.

If you want something of a reading course (cf. JACT's Reading Greek or the like), hands down I'd recommend Learning to Read Biblical Hebrew by Kutz and Josburger. I have a very high regard for this text (and it's Greek equivalent). Kutz gets nitty gritty as well, I just miss the parsing exercises of other textbooks. But other things can help add that back in (if desired).
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Deinonysus
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Re: Classical Languages - Study Group

Postby Deinonysus » Tue Sep 03, 2024 2:53 pm

I think Aleph with Beth, which vonPeterhof linked, seems very solid if comprehensible input is your thing (it isn't mine). I wouldn't call the pronunciation idiosyncratic. It's a fairly standard Sephardic pronunciation, which was the main model for Modern Hebrew and was considered to be the "proper" Israeli pronunciation for a long time, the equivalent of RP or "BBC English". But at the end of the 20th century, broadcasters gave up and went with the colloquial pronunciation, with a gutteral R and no distinct ayin or het sounds.

My recommendation for a first book for Biblical Hebrew would be First Hebrew Primer: The Adult Beginner's Path to Biblical Hebrew. I think I might have mentioned it at one of the Boston meetups. It goes over the major grammatical topics and has great reading exercises, starting with fairy tails translated into simple Biblical Hebrew, then introducing a simplified version of the book of Ruth, and then eventually presenting the remainder of Ruth in the original once enough grammar has been covered.

After First Hebrew Primer, I think a denser and more academic book like Lambdin or Seow will be more approachable. They could be overwhelming if you jump right in as a beginner.
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Beli Tsar
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Re: Classical Languages - Study Group

Postby Beli Tsar » Tue Sep 03, 2024 2:58 pm

I have less recent experience than księżycowy, and haven't used Deinonysus' recommended book, but here's a little to supplement those excellent recommendations.

księżycowy wrote:I found Kittel, et al. fantastic for diving into the actual text and getting bites out of grammar and vocabulary. The approach is very inductive. This was the textbook I used a few years ago, when I was getting back into Hebrew after a long break.

I found Kittel decent but a bit... Bitty? Theoretically inductive, but without enough content to work like an inductive textbook should? It works, though, and is better than most.
księżycowy wrote:If you want something of a reading course (cf. JACT's Reading Greek or the like), hands down I'd recommend Learning to Read Biblical Hebrew by Kutz and Josburger. I have a very high regard for this text (and it's Greek equivalent). Kutz gets nitty gritty as well, I just miss the parsing exercises of other textbooks. But other things can help add that back in (if desired).

Heartily agree! This is definitely where I'd start if I was going to begin again: not exactly a reading course, but more of one than anything else available, and with solid grammar coverage into the bargain.

Of other courses, the well known (evangelical) textbook by Pratico & Van Pelt suffers from the same issues as many other Hebrew grammars (i.e being what critics of grammar-translation think grammar-translation is, but it's still a one of the best of them bunch and has a lot of available resources - if you want a choice of Anki decks, audio, video courses, supplements, etc, this is where to go.

Of other textbooks, Routledge looks ok too.

I also reckon Aleph with Beth is very good: an exemplary communicative course, really very well done indeed, and a great companion to a textbook to get you listening. Even if full communicative style isn't your thing (it's not mine) most textbooks lean so far the other way that is an ideal companion for multi-tracking.

A good recording of the whole Bible is available, chapter by chapter, by Samuel Shmuelof, is available at Mechon Mare - https://mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/ptmp3prq.htm.
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Deinonysus
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Re: Classical Languages - Study Group

Postby Deinonysus » Tue Sep 03, 2024 4:06 pm

Beli Tsar wrote:A good recording of the whole Bible is available, chapter by chapter, by Samuel Shmuelof, is available at Mechon Mare - https://mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/ptmp3prq.htm.
That website is an absolute gem! The recording is done with traditional Sephardic pronunciation, similar to what you'd hear on Aleph with Beth.

I would also recommend using their bilingual Hebrew-English Bible as a starting point. You can click "Listen to this chapter in Hebrew" to hear the recording.
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księżycowy
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Re: Classical Languages - Study Group

Postby księżycowy » Tue Sep 03, 2024 4:20 pm

Deinonysus wrote:After First Hebrew Primer, I think a denser and more academic book like Lambdin or Seow will be more approachable. They could be overwhelming if you jump right in as a beginner.

I forgot about Seow! I made it a bit into Seow, and personally I loved his approach. I think the way he approached the grammar was very well suited for how Hebrew actually works, as opposed to most other textbooks which take a more "European" approach. I plan to go back through his book at some point. He also made a point to give some readings in most lessons. The main difference between Kutz and Seow regarding the readings is how long you want them (Kutz has long readings of about 3-4 pages). Kutz also has you go through one book (mostly Genesis), and stays with one coherent story for a while. Towards the end (the "intermediate reader") you go through Ruth, Esther and Jonah (which I don't think are simplified or abridged like the readings in the Beginning section).

I also think a learner would be well served with Routledge's Introductory course. The audio is a nice touch as well, though if my ears don't deceive me it's Modern Israeli pronunciation (or thereabouts). The readings (though not always Biblical) are nice as well.
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księżycowy
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Re: Classical Languages - Study Group

Postby księżycowy » Tue Sep 03, 2024 4:25 pm

Deinonysus wrote:My recommendation for a first book for Biblical Hebrew would be First Hebrew Primer: The Adult Beginner's Path to Biblical Hebrew. I think I might have mentioned it at one of the Boston meetups. It goes over the major grammatical topics and has great reading exercises, starting with fairy tails translated into simple Biblical Hebrew, then introducing a simplified version of the book of Ruth, and then eventually presenting the remainder of Ruth in the original once enough grammar has been covered.

That reminds me of LeSor's inductive textbook. Only difference is, LeSor doesn't simplify. He just goes verse by verse at the start. I'm not a huge fan of his textbook, but that's me.
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Xenops
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Re: Classical Languages - Study Group

Postby Xenops » Sat Sep 07, 2024 4:08 pm

Thank you everyone for the suggestions! I looked at a preview of First Hebrew Primer: The Adult Beginner's Path to Biblical Hebrew, and realized this was the book I was looking for when I attempted Modern Hebrew. :D I also purchased Lambdin's and Seow's books.
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einzelne
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Re: Classical Languages - Study Group

Postby einzelne » Wed Sep 11, 2024 2:17 am

Interesting YouTube channel with audio recordings of Latin and (to a lesser degree) Greek. Lots of unexpected neo-Latin texts!

https://www.youtube.com/@Onagrus-qf2ud/
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