Dutch Study Group

An area with study groups for various languages. Group members help each other, share resources and experience. Study groups are permanent but the members rotate and change.
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Le Baron
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Re: Dutch Study Group

Postby Le Baron » Sun Mar 03, 2024 5:37 pm

Ug_Caveman wrote:Just curious, has anyone here had experience with Ter Zake by L. Bekkers and S. Mennen (published by Intertaal)?

I haven't, but it's worth saying something about 'Ter zake'. In the 1995 Woordenlijst Nederlandse taal (aka Het Groene Boekje) it was spelled as one word. It has been at other times as well, but it is now considered as always two words, in fact a 'word group'. Nevertheless loads of people write it as one single word.

Its usual meanings are : 'to the point or matter' (at hand) and 'to business'. Adding 'van' to the end 'ter zake van' means 'with regard to' or 'regarding' in a formal style. Something like:

Hij had een telefonisch bericht achtergelaten ter zake van het ondertekenen van het contract. Or more informally 'over het ondertekenen van het contract. Very commonly people tend to put this acronym or initialism: mbt (met betrekking tot = regarding/concerning/with reference to):

Was er een telefonisch bericht achtergelaten mbt het ondertekenen van het contract?.

There are loads of these used officially and unofficially: maw = met andere woorden, tbv = ter beschikking van, dwz = dat wil zeggen, iig = in ieder geval... etc.
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Pedantry is properly the over-rating of any kind of knowledge we pretend to.
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Ug_Caveman
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Re: Dutch Study Group

Postby Ug_Caveman » Mon Mar 04, 2024 1:47 am

Le Baron wrote:Hij had een telefonisch bericht achtergelaten ter zake van het ondertekenen van het contract. Or more informally 'over het ondertekenen van het contract. Very commonly people tend to put this acronym or initialism: mbt (met betrekking tot = regarding/concerning/with reference to):

Was er een telefonisch bericht achtergelaten mbt het ondertekenen van het contract?.

There are loads of these used officially and unofficially: maw = met andere woorden, tbv = ter beschikking van, dwz = dat wil zeggen, iig = in ieder geval... etc.


How about "afb" - does that mean anything as a Dutch contraction?
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Languages: English (N), Dutch (passed A2 exam in May 2021, failed B1 in May 2023 - never sit an exam when you have food poisoning!)

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Le Baron
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
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Re: Dutch Study Group

Postby Le Baron » Mon Mar 04, 2024 2:29 am

Ug_Caveman wrote:How about "afb" - does that mean anything as a Dutch contraction?

Afbeelding = image/picture/diagram
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Pedantry is properly the over-rating of any kind of knowledge we pretend to.
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Le Baron
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Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=18796
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Re: Dutch Study Group

Postby Le Baron » Mon May 13, 2024 1:59 am

An interesting behind the scenes short film of the 1969 TV series Floris which starred Rutger Hauer and the director there in the swinging 1960s spectacles is Paul Verhoeven. This was a big hit at the time and turns up on 'best Dutch TV programmes' lists. The voice-over is by Verhoeven's long-time collaborator and screenwriter Gerard Soeteman, who has one of those Polygoon news type voices.

Note the word they use for make-up artists around 16 minutes. A 'grimeur' ('grime' is the greasepaint). It's the official word, but you hear 'visagist' as much now. Also the word for the make-up application itself: 'schmink/schminken'. This is also used and schmink is also 'make-up/greasepaint). The first time I heard that word was in connection with children having their faces painted at things like carnivals and fairs. Plug it into google and look at the images.

I was appalled when they dumped a load of dry ice into a brook and then some petrol and set it alight for a 'special effect'. :o

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Pedantry is properly the over-rating of any kind of knowledge we pretend to.
- Jonathan Swift

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Le Baron
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
Posts: 3628
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:14 pm
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Languages: English (N), fr, nl, de, eo, Sranantongo,
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Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=18796
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Re: Dutch Study Group

Postby Le Baron » Tue May 14, 2024 10:52 pm

I'd like to offer a little tip (you might even know it), just in case you ever find yourself on the phone and run into this. I was telephoned by a government organisation today and it reminded of when I first heard it and was baffled. I was in the middle of doing something when I answered and after the usual 'hello' stuff the person on the other end said:

Is het gelegen? = Is it a good/convenient moment?

The actual phrase is 'komt' het gelegen?, but some people say the other one. Also: heb je gelegen?

Okay. The reason I'm mentioning this is because people say it when they sense that you're otherwise occupied and it's not an opportune moment. However when you're a learner or liable to be surprised in some situations, it can also sound like that over the phone. This happened to me numerous times until I asked someone what on earth it meant. It had never been mentioned in any book or class I was in. If it was I missed it. Perhaps newer books have it?

If it's opportune the answer is obviously 'yes'. I remember being phoned about a driving license and I said 'no' and the person rang off and I wondered why. :lol: If it really is not convenient you might probably say something like: het is niet echt een geschikt moment. In fact someone might even ask: 'schikt het..? (e.g. schikt het als ik maandag op bezoek kom?). Though it's not the standard formal phrase for the telephone.

Hopefully someone will find this useful.
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Pedantry is properly the over-rating of any kind of knowledge we pretend to.
- Jonathan Swift


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