Spanish against French: the fight to be the second global language

[javier_getafe]

Interesting that Gibraltar is so much higher in GDP per person than Spain.

I'm afraid that this is not the real situation in Gibraltar. It is a very depresed area in the most of their neiborhoods if you go away of the turist places.

The GDP per capita is only an average and Gibraltar is a very lucrative tax haven where thousand of companies own their register office with the only reason to save money.

Not to mention the terrible smugling of tabacco.

[kanewai]

I pretty much agree with everything Cavesa wrote ... but French has one advantage that I think is being overlooked. I find that Francophone countries have more economic and cultural connections with non-Francophone countries than Spanish-speaking countries do. The few times I've been to international environmental conferences the second language has been French. Part of this, I suspect, is that so many NGOs are based in Geneva or Brussels. My impression is that Spanish-speaking countries tend to interact more among themselves, creating a world that is somewhat apart. A city like Paris is like New York and London - a cultural center for the world. I can't think of a Spanish-speaking city that is on that level. Mexico City (CDMX), for example, is one of the world's great cities, and I love it - but it is a cultural center for Latin America rather than the world.

My personal guess is that the 'struggle' between Spanish and French for second place won't be decided anytime soon.

[PeterMollenburg]

So outside a Spanish speaking country, just anywhere else in the world you're much more likely to encounter a French speaker than a Spanish speaker, and people who learn other languages to be able to communicate, and travel, are the type of people you're more likely to encounter. The hundreds of millions of native speakers of any given language are people you're never going to meet anyway.

This isn’t actually correct, because you’re forgetting one category. Although I’m not suggesting Spanish therefore ‘wins’ this battle, yes numbers of learners of these two languages is very important as you suggest, however you’re not taking into account immigrants.

Whenever I’ve come across Spanish speakers here in Australia, they have been immigrants 99% of the time. French speakers have not been only learners, (and if they were Australian French learners most of the time their level was never good enough to even have a basic conversation). Thus you can’t base the importance of these languages only on how many learners there are.

Take a look at the US, even if (which it’s not) French learners were ahead of Spanish learners in absolute numbers (their not, I believe), Spanish still remains more relevant in the US due to immigration.

And of course we can’t forget tourism. Perhaps 50% of my French conversations here have been with tourists. Tourists are the opposite case here, French speakers are much more common than Spanish speakers.

So to really guage the usefulness and importance of which is more useful outside of Latin America for example or being right next door to France, then not only do we need to look at L2 learners of each language, but also immigrants and tourist numbers. That’s of course also ignoring literature, film, internet and so on.

[romeo.alpha]

This isn’t actually correct, because you’re forgetting one category. Although I’m not suggesting Spanish therefore ‘wins’ this battle, yes numbers of learners of these two languages is very important as you suggest, however you’re not taking into account immigrants.

There are two types of immigrants though. Those who are learning the local language, and those who don't want to talk to you anyway. Learning Spanish because of immigrants becomes relevant if you get in a relationship with a Spanish-speaker, and want to communicate with their family, or in certain lines of work (and certain lines of work is something that will always re-arrange languages in order of usefulness).

I have way more Spanish co-workers than French. Infinitely more in fact. (And more Portuguese than Spanish, incidentally). I speak French on a regular basis, and I've never had to learn Spanish, because the Spaniards have learned German (or English, or French), and Spanish guests will also speak either French or English.

[javier_getafe]

I have way more Spanish co-workers than French. Infinitely more in fact. (And more Portuguese than Spanish, incidentally). I speak French on a regular basis, and I've never had to learn Spanish, because the Spaniards have learned German (or English, or French), and Spanish guests will also speak either French or English.

Assesing the whole world according to your own experience is a mistake in itself.
As I said before, the percentage of spaniards learning french is minimum. Not to mention German. Here in Spain, at schools, people study english, english , and english. In fact, you can not study france until secondary school. Every boy and girl in spanish, from the early age of three years old only have the choice to study english as second lenguage. The oficial school of lenguages ( the best and affordable place to study languages here even dont have a distante course in france, only in english “thats english” is called. Fantastic course by the way)

[romeo.alpha]

Well, if you're going to say something like this:

Assesing the whole world according to your own experience is a mistake in itself.

You had better have something backing up this:

As I said before, the percentage of spaniards learning french is minimum.

Let's see youre numbers and sources.

[javier_getafe]

Let's see youre numbers and sources.

Of course I will. However, it is not really important though. What a said before is the real situation in Spain. I know it, mi friends know it, my co workers know it. Everyone knows in Spain what the situation is. English, english and english.

My sister is teacher, my daughter is 19 yo and she is studing in the university. Do you think that I dont perfectly know what the situation is in Spain?

Think in one thing. If you want to study in the Oficial School of Languages in any big city in Spain you find 4 classes for english and one class for france. This is factual deed, I can assure you it is.

Another fact. In primary and secondary school in Spain. Every student need to do the A2 exam in primary and First exam in secondary. And I am talking about official exam from cambridge. The spain government has a special agreement with Cambridge school in order to asses every boy in Spain.

[romeo.alpha]

Of course I will. However, it is not really important though. What a said before is the real situation in Spain. I know it, mi friends know it, my co workers know it. Everyone knows in Spain what the situation is. English, english and english.

The situation in Spain is hardly relevant to Spanish immigrants outside Spain, who are going to be learning the local language of whatever country they moved to (which is why they speak German where I am).

Think in one thing. If you want to study in the Oficial School of Languages in any big city in Spain you find 4 classes for english and one class for france. This is factual deed, I can assure you it is.

That just makes Spanish even less useful. You don't need to learn it because they speak English. Plenty of French speakers aren't interested in learning other languages, and you also have plenty of people who learn French but not English. I've met quite a few Arabs for instance who speak French but no English.

[javier_getafe]

The situation in Spain is hardly relevant to Spanish immigrants outside Spain, who are going to be learning the local language of whatever country they moved to (which is why they speak German where I am)

Of course 1+1=2

In the same way, I have two good friends living here from UK and France and they both learnt Spanish, so it was relevant for them, Im afraid.

[aokoye]

All of this talk of Spain when the vast majority of L1 Spanish speakers don't live in Spain...

Here's a link, but also, just look at the population of Mexico (while obviously not all of Mexico's population are L1 Spanish speakers, more than 90% are).