How Difficult Is It to Immigrate?

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Xenops
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How Difficult Is It to Immigrate?

Postby Xenops » Sat Oct 29, 2016 5:57 pm

On another thread many of you mentioned that you had immigrated to another country, and some of you at least a couple of times. I did some basic research, and it sound like my career as a medical laboratory scientist is on the demand list at least for some countries (Canada, Ireland, and Australia). It sounds like I will need 1-2 years of working experience, and then I'm good to go (I'm currently in school).

Actually my interest in going elsewhere is independent of who wins the American presidential election. ;) To keep it short, I think the U.S. is screwed no matter who wins. Plus, I have a wanderlust: there's more to the world then the U.S. I recently read an article saying that one the issues with moving to Canada is that people are not as social, and that they even go to restaurants alone, and I read this part and thought, "finally! A culture that doesn't worship extroverts!".

Back to moving abroad, where do I start? What do I research, where do I find the info? Did you learn the language before you got there? Did you have a job offer before you went? What's the process of legally working there, becoming a long-term member and finally a citizen?

Thanks for you input in advance. :)
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Re: How Difficult Is It to Immigrate?

Postby Marais » Sat Oct 29, 2016 6:27 pm

I moved within the EU so it's not really comparable as we're supposed to be able to come and go as we please as long as we don't sponge off the host country's resources without having first paid in.

My sister moved to NZ from the UK and it was a nightmare for her. Interviews, meetings, VISA, had to prove at least £5k in her account before they would consider her, she had to have written authorisation from someone who would give her somewhere to stay etc.

But i don't really know the process from the US to somewhere else. It seems to me the EU can be funny - eg i've seen examples of multimillionaire footballers from outside the EU being refused work permits and things like that. I know of at least one well-to-do amateur golfer whose VISA to the US was denied and he only wanted to go for a fortnight to play 2 tournaments.
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Re: How Difficult Is It to Immigrate?

Postby Serpent » Sat Oct 29, 2016 6:50 pm

Xenops wrote:they even go to restaurants alone, and I read this part and thought, "finally! A culture that doesn't worship extroverts!".
Finland is introvert-friendly too :) I think most northern European countries are.
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Re: How Difficult Is It to Immigrate?

Postby Systematiker » Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:01 pm

I had a long post that got lost, let's try again. The first one had more information, but I don't remember all that I wrote, and some of it was anecdote nonsense anyway.

Even if you're in-demand, check out the points system for Canada, other stuff makes a difference. My wife and I looked at it, we'd have to pass the French test. We're not going, though (well, unless this election changes my wife's mind :lol: )

When I went to Germany, I wasn't on a student visa. The US is one of seven "privileged countries" for immigration, so as long as you can prove financial security (about 10k€) and insurance, you can come and stay (but no social net). You can go on a tourist visa waiver and look for a job, too, no one gets too worked up about it as long as you get the visa straightened out before working. The problem you'll have is preferential employment for EU citizens (which got better for me upon getting married, spouses of EU citizens have the same right to work). I actually qualified for EU permanent residence, which mean I could have gone elsewhere, too, but I didn't bother because I qualified while planning the move here (edit: that was a matter of time accruing under the right visa conditions, so it's just a waiting game. I have a friend who did it without marrying a national, haha).

I didn't have the language down before going, but I could kind of stay afloat, and I had help.

Bureaucracy got a lot easier once my German got good. People get tired of dealing with broken speech, so communicating well enough to be treated as an equal and not a petitioner made a world of difference.

Ultimately we left due to the age-stratification of the society. I simply wasn't old enough to be taken seriously in my field (I shaved a few years off, and US Americans started earlier than Germans comparable to my situation). So wherever you're headed, look at how the work culture will be and how you will compare to your peers of similar education and experience, that may be a big factor for your satisfaction as well as your viability on the job market.

Marais wrote:My sister moved to NZ from the UK and it was a nightmare for her


From what I know, moving to the UK is a nightmare for everyone. I have a friend who had terrible issues (and who later moved to NZ, interestingly). I actually didn't take a spot in the UK because I didn't want to deal with what it would have taken to go there (it was a term thing, not permanent, my wife would have had trouble, too, and I didn't want to quarantine my dogs).
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Re: How Difficult Is It to Immigrate?

Postby tomgosse » Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:07 pm

Xenops wrote:On another thread many of you mentioned that you had immigrated to another country, and some of you at least a couple of times. I did some basic research, and it sound like my career as a medical laboratory scientist is on the demand list at least for some countries (Canada, Ireland, and Australia). It sounds like I will need 1-2 years of working experience, and then I'm good to go (I'm currently in school).

Actually my interest in going elsewhere is independent of who wins the American presidential election. ;) To keep it short, I think the U.S. is screwed no matter who wins. Plus, I have a wanderlust: there's more to the world then the U.S. I recently read an article saying that one the issues with moving to Canada is that people are not as social, and that they even go to restaurants alone, and I read this part and thought, "finally! A culture that doesn't worship extroverts!".

Back to moving abroad, where do I start? What do I research, where do I find the info? Did you learn the language before you got there? Did you have a job offer before you went? What's the process of legally working there, becoming a long-term member and finally a citizen?

Thanks for you input in advance. :)

I'm a dual national (Canadian-American) and I have lived in both the United States and Canada. I don't think that Canadians are not as social as Americans. They may not be as loud and boisterous as Americans, but not less social. As far as language goes, Québec is the only place that you would need to worry about speaking French.

I would start by making a list of the countries you are interested in, then search for their web pages, and information on immigration. Most western nations put that info on the web.

If you have parent or grandparent that was born outside of the U.S. search and see if you can claim citizenship through them. I know that Ireland will register you as a citizen if you have a parent or grandparent born there. The paperwork is a nightmare. I know, I did it.

Best of luck, and keep us posted.
Tom

From what I've read, the paperwork to immigrate can be a nightmare.
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Re: How Difficult Is It to Immigrate?

Postby Marais » Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:11 pm

Systematiker wrote:From what I know, moving to the UK is a nightmare for everyone. I have a friend who had terrible issues (and who later moved to NZ, interestingly). I actually didn't take a spot in the UK because I didn't want to deal with what it would have taken to go there (it was a term thing, not permanent, my wife would have had trouble, too, and I didn't want to quarantine my dogs).

Only if you're from outside the EU. Within the EU it's very easy to move to the UK. Same as it was for me moving to France. I literally upped and moved. You don't even really have to let anyone know.
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Re: How Difficult Is It to Immigrate?

Postby Systematiker » Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:36 pm

Marais wrote:
Systematiker wrote:From what I know, moving to the UK is a nightmare for everyone. I have a friend who had terrible issues (and who later moved to NZ, interestingly). I actually didn't take a spot in the UK because I didn't want to deal with what it would have taken to go there (it was a term thing, not permanent, my wife would have had trouble, too, and I didn't want to quarantine my dogs).

Only if you're from outside the EU. Within the EU it's very easy to move to the UK. Same as it was for me moving to France. I literally upped and moved. You don't even really have to let anyone know.


Right, that's mostly what I meant. Although when we looked at it, it looked like my wife (German citizen) would have had to do a bunch of hassle-paperwork if employed there (this was like 2011 or 2012, I don't know how often stuff changes).
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Re: How Difficult Is It to Immigrate?

Postby Xenops » Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:40 pm

Systematiker wrote:
Even if you're in-demand, check out the points system for Canada, other stuff makes a difference. My wife and I looked at it, we'd have to pass the French test. We're not going, though (well, unless this election changes my wife's mind :lol: )...

Ultimately we left due to the age-stratification of the society. I simply wasn't old enough to be taken seriously in my field (I shaved a few years off, and US Americans started earlier than Germans comparable to my situation). So wherever you're headed, look at how the work culture will be and how you will compare to your peers of similar education and experience, that may be a big factor for your satisfaction as well as your viability on the job market.


Thank you for reminding me about the points system. I remember looking at that in the past, Australia's in particular, I think. Good point that they will prefer their own countrymen for hiring; even if you qualified, do you think you could have gotten a job?

I will be in my early 30's by the time I can move abroad: is this still considered too young?

As much as (I think, I haven't visited yet) I love England, I don't know if I would bother trying to move there. I keep hearing horror stories. :shock: Though Ireland sounds really interesting on its own right. It's also been a dream to learn Irish. ;)

tomgosse wrote:
If you have parent or grandparent that was born outside of the U.S. search and see if you can claim citizenship through them. I know that Ireland will register you as a citizen if you have a parent or grandparent born there. The paperwork is a nightmare. I know, I did it.

Best of luck, and keep us posted.
Tom

From what I've read, the paperwork to immigrate can be a nightmare.


Sadly, all of my family has been in the U.S. for several generations. :| I have some distant relatives in Norway, and that has been another consideration (I keep hearing good things about those Scandinavian countries!).

Even though I used Australia as a stepping stone to immigration research, I've heard stories about how the health care workers are overworked and underpaid, some with NZ. Plus, they seem to be in their own world away from everyone else. :oops:

Another problem is picking languages to study: with school, I only have so much time to dedicate to outside pursuits. Hopefully after school I can also move to a bigger area where there are more native speakers. In the state of Idaho, the only diverse area is Boise, the rest of state is very monolingual.
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Re: How Difficult Is It to Immigrate?

Postby zenmonkey » Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:48 pm

Ok, I've done this a few times and can walk you through one or more paths.

First off, begin with the language learning yesterday. It takes time to learn a language well, and having as much as possible in place before you move counts for lot.

Second, one of the easiest way to move abroad is as a student, getting a upper level degree abroad will simplify the paperwork as well as finding a job. Think about how you might get a masters degree after your current one in a university in your target country. Remember EU schools are cheaper and may have funding sources.

This can be a long conversation ... where do you want to go? Remember that it is highly important that you are moving TOWARDS a country and NOT just leaving something behind. If you are just escaping (and we have those expats here) then you'll likely not be happier landing somewhere else - we call those "short-timers" or "broken toys"...

I've successfully migrated from Mexico --> US --> France --> Germany and have not made it to Japan or China because my opportunities closed and my drive wasn't there. I may migrate one more time some day.

If you are focusing on migrating I'd suggest you stop dabbling in lots of languages and really focus on one until you get it to at least a solid, certifiable B1 level - if you can do that before any thought of migration really occurring, it will be a big plus. As a student, you actually have more time than a person working full time. Get it done.
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Re: How Difficult Is It to Immigrate?

Postby zenmonkey » Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:58 pm

Marais wrote:
Systematiker wrote:From what I know, moving to the UK is a nightmare for everyone. I have a friend who had terrible issues (and who later moved to NZ, interestingly). I actually didn't take a spot in the UK because I didn't want to deal with what it would have taken to go there (it was a term thing, not permanent, my wife would have had trouble, too, and I didn't want to quarantine my dogs).

Only if you're from outside the EU. Within the EU it's very easy to move to the UK. Same as it was for me moving to France. I literally upped and moved. You don't even really have to let anyone know.


Well, that is likely to change in the 2019 for the UK and in several countries you are required to register if you move. For example, even as an EU citizen you need to register where you live in Germany. If you stay in Germany for longer than two months, you must register with your local municipality within two weeks of moving into a property.
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