Trip Report: Talking Italian in Italy

[kanewai]

I spent 2 1/2 weeks in Italy this past August/September; it was an amazing trip and I used my Italian a lot. This report is going to be a hodgepodge of language observations, general observations, and a few recommendations on where to eat and what to see. And maybe some more on where to eat.

Maybe I'll just do a separate post on food. Si mangia bene in italia.

I started off solo, and met friends half way through my time in Venice. I had been a bit frustrated with my own levels of speaking before they arrived. I was speaking much more Italian than English, but I was also relying too much on the same simple grammar patterns and words. I'd think: I know so much more than this, why can't I activate it? And then I'd remind myself: I've only been studying casually for 2 years. I've put in maybe 200 or 250 hours of actual focused work. On one hand that's a lot, but on the other, it's not enough to reach a really high level. In fact, per my notes from FSI, it's exactly enough for a motivated learner to have passed A2 but not reached B1 - which is exactly where I was.

When I met my friends they were amazed. You speak Italian so well! I confessed that I was really speaking a super basic version of Italian with, possibly, a decent accent. And they pointed out two things that made me feel awesome: 1) no one was looking at me blankly trying to figure out what I was saying, and 2) no one was switching to English when I talked.

A lot of times I feel that I'm faking it, that I put all this time into language learning and am not really learning anything. Or that I should be fluent already. Sometimes it takes an outside observer to point out how far I've actually come.

THE ROUTE
Napoli - six nights (including one overnight in Salerno)
Padova - two nights
Venezia - five nights (met a group of friends on night 3)
Verona - two nights
Firenze- three nights

This was the first trip where I really understood just how different Italy's regions were, and how different the dialects were.

PREPARATION - LANGUAGE

I started working on Italian in December 2013, using mostly standard resources: Pimsleur through Level V, Michel Thomas, Assimil, and Living Language. However, it was only my primary focus for the past year. In addition, I used Italian for this year's Super Challenge.

This was a very solid combination, and it's one I'd use again for other languages. Pimsleur is the best way for working on a good accent, Assimil is great for getting a wider sense of the language, and Living Language is great for basic vocabulary and working on grammar in a relatively easy manner. And of course the Super Challenge exposes you to the wide variety in which a language can be used.

I started on FSI's Italian FAST course, but didn't find it useful. I don't think it's designed to really learn a language. I missed having an FSI Basic course, and would have chosen that over Living Language if it were on option.

Michel Thomas is interesting: it's great as an introduction to a language, but not really necessary - it just makes the first steps a lot easier. And while I'm normally not a fan of his "language builder" series (where he just repeats phrases in Italian and English), I listened to some on the train in Napoli and it was perfect for my needs at that time. This course I'll file away as one that works when I'm immersed (and need those phrases), but not one that I like in the normal course of studying.

PREPARATION - OTHER RESOURCES

I didn't use a guidebook, but did receive a lot of excellent advice on my itinerary at the Fodor's Travel Talk Forums. It has a nice balance of educated people who really love the places they talk about. It skews a bit higher income than I can manage, but I still find their advice useful.

Dr. Philip Daileader's Great Courses audiobook series on the early, middle, and high middle ages was brilliant. It's more affordable to buy it with credits on audible.com.

Benjamin and Adam Ashwell's Talking History (Italian Unification) podcast had a fantastic section on Venetian and Renaissance history.

Goethe's Italian Journey was a surprisingly fun read based on his diary from a trip he took in the 1780's. His writing is fantastic: Naples is a paradise; everyone lives in a state of intoxicated self-forgetfulness, myself included. I seem to be a completely different person whom I hardly recognise. Yesterday I thought to myself: Either you were mad before, or you are mad now.

I wish I knew German so that I could read him in the original. Maybe next year.

... and this is taking longer than I thought. Next post: highs and lows.

[tastyonions]

Thanks for the post! I am taking a trip to Italy next fall. I have been studying off and on for about a year, but only seriously for the past few months.

[kanewai]

Recommendations for other travelers

There were so many great things to see I can't even begin to narrow this down to a top ten list. I'll try to keep it under 20!

Centro Storico, Napoli

I've heard so many horror stories about Naples, but I loved the city. The people were cool, the streets were clean, I picked up no sense of danger, and the art and architecture were stunning. I spent six nights here, staying in the center, and there were still tons of things left on my bucket list. One of the coolest things was that the historic center was part of the living city; it hasn't been turned over to tourist boutiques like other medieval quarters in Europe.

First Facebook post from Naples:

It's myth busting time. #1: Naples is dangerous. People I talk to say that was true fifteen years ago. Tonight the streets were full of people of all ages. I saw zero drunks, zero crazy, and zero thugs. It was all pretty mellow. I felt no tension in the streets at all. #2: Italian cities close down in August and there are only tourists left. Not even close to true tonight. #3: Naples is dirty. This is mixed. There's lots of graffiti, and more litter than I'm used to. However, it smelled clean, unlike SF (stale piss) or Waikiki (unwashed homeless). It's a toss-up.

True Facts: the pizza really is that good. We don't even come close. Also: one pizzaretta Margherita will fill you up and costs all of €1.50. Add €2 for a big bottle of Peroni & you have the best budget meal ever.

It's still early, but I like the city so far. It's got a vibe a little like Istanbul, and a little like Rio. It's a good combo!

Second Facebook post:

The shocking truth about the Mediterranean diet: breakfast is cream and chocolate pastries (one of each, the second so full of chocolate it oozes all over your plate with every bite), lunch is some version of a ham and cheese sandwich, a snack is mista terra, dinner is pizza, and the drink of choice is white wine mixed with aperol and soda, on the rocks.

There are no greens sautéed in olive oil in sight. We've been lied to.

And they're still skinnier than us.

Last post:

The old men are cracking jokes with me about other American passengers on the train. I can barely understand them. Here's a pattern I found: if I wear a tight t-shirt and put product in my hair everyone speaks to me in Italian (I understand the basics), or even Neapolitan (I understand nothing). No product, and they speak English.

Centro Storico highlights: The veiled Christ at the Museo Cappella Sansevero was surreal. Seeing the Caravaggio at Pio Monte della Misericordia was also a treat. Art always seems more powerful to me when I see it in context rather than at a museum.


They call her Bella Napoli for a reason!

Pompeii

Of course, Pompeii. What's interesting is that it's a huge area, and 80% of the tourists stick to the area near the entrance. Do this: enter through the back door, near the amphitheater. This is the entry in the town itself, not near the train station. For a couple hours I wandered through streets and gardens that were quiet and peaceful, and didn't encounter the mad hordes until early afternoon.


Vineyards at Pompeii. They're trying to recreate the original cultivars


Villa Poppaea

Imagine a Roman Villa with 98 rooms open to explore. Imaging that the walls are still covered in their original frescoes. And imagine that you are the only one exploring the villa. It doesn't make sense, yet there it was.

Oplontis was a wealthy suburb of Pompei, and was destroyed in the same 79 a.d. eruption. "Villa A" is a sprawling maritime patrician residence. The first phase was built circa 50 BCE, remodeled circa 1 CE, and remodeled two or three times after 45. Nero's wife Poppea is said to have lived here. The villa was abandoned after the earthquake of 62, which cut off its water supply. It was empty when Vesuvius erupted. A lot of the frescoes survived - making it one of the richest sites of Roman painting.

Villa Poppaea was one of the more incredible sites I've seen, and it was empty. I went here after Pompeii, and it was a perfect combination; I'd strongly argue that it makes a richer day than the standard Pompeii+Herculaneum that most people recommended. I am amazed at how unknown this place is.


The walls are all covered in frescoes.


Paestum

The Greeks founded Paestum in 600 b.c. The Lucani took over 200 years later, and the Romans conquered the city in 273 b.c. By the 4th century a.d. deforestation led to the rivers silting up, and the area became an abandoned malarial wasteland. In 1963 Jason and the Argonauts battled the harpies here.

I had read great reviews of the site, but still wasn't completely convinced that three Greek temples in a field would be terribly exciting. But it was. It was great to be in the country after a couple days in the city, and the temples are magnificent. I'm scrolling through my photos now, and they way they are set against the mountains on one side and open sky on the other is beautiful. The small museum was also enjoyable, and shouldn't be missed.




Salerno

Salerno was a spur of the moment overnight; I spent the night rather than taking the train back from Paestum to Naples. It was a good choice; the old town is nice, the Duomo fantastic, and walking through the Giardino della Minerva (the herbal medical garden from one of Europe's oldest universities) made for a pleasant evening.


Il Museo di Storia della Medicina di Padova

I went into geek love overdrive at theMuseum of Medical History in Padova. In 1414 the first modern hospital was founded here, and the museum is an interactive walk through six centuries of western medicine. There were no other kids, so I got to play with the toys all by myself.

Tourists are strange things: there are lots of them here, hundreds all queued up for a few sites - while there were amazing sites around the corner that were completely empty.



Other Padova highlights: I saw Giotto's frescoes at the Capella degli Scrovegni, got lost in a maze of Tintorettos, saw Roman miniatures carved out of precious gems, and visited a shrine built around the uncorrupted tongue, la lingua incorrotta, of Sant' Antonio (as well as his vocal cords and lower jaw, all encased in crystal and gold).


The Neighborhoods of Venice

Here's the thing about Venice: there's a long track from the cruise ship dock to the train station to San Marco. It was 2 km of non-stop selfie sticks, Hard Rock t-shirts, and fake Gucci bags, restaurants with cheap food and expensive drinks, and kiosks selling made-in-China "Venetian" trinkets. It is hell, and once you are in it there is no escape: there are no bridges to cross the Grand Canal, no traghetto that I could find, no side streets leading in quieter directions.

When people say they don't like Venice, or that it's overrated, or that half a day is enough, I think: They know nothing. They never wandered outside this track.

Because Venice is magic outside this area. I spent hours walking the streets at night under the full moon. I spent lazy afternoons drinking spritzes and ombra (a "shadow" - a short glass of wine) and eating cichetti at working class bàcari. I got disoriented a dozen times a day, because the city isn't just sinking, it's warping the actual fabric of space-time. Basic laws of geometry don't work. Parallel streets run tangent to each other, alleys end behind where they started, and the shortest distance between two points is a double helix.




San Giorgio Maggiore

You can see the island of San Giorgio Maggiore from San Marco, and everyone seems to get a picture of the church designed by Palladio from across the water. And yet almost no one gets on a boat to actually visit the island. If you go to Venice this should be a mandatory stop: the campanile has the best views of the lagoon, and there is never a line to get up.




Torre dell'Orologio

There are only a few tours offered per day of the clock tower at San Marco. I thought it was fascinating to get inside the tower; the guide was engaging and the views from the top are fantastic. Don't miss it, though make reservations online ahead of time.


The view between the Moors' legs


Row Venice

One night we took rowing lessons with Row Venice. We learned how to row Venetian style, in traditional wooden boats, and then took the boats through the side canals of Cannaregio into the Grand Canal. We only did the 90" lesson - I could have easily spent twice hours doing this. It was one of the highlights of a trip full of highlights.


Opera

We saw La Traviata at Teatro La Fenice in Venice and Nabucco at the Arena di Verona. I felt like such a grown up! Both were fantastic. In Venice we went for the cheap seats near the ceiling, but the sound quality was amazing. For Verona we splurged and got seats near the front. (I say we splurged, but we still paid half of what my friends paid to see Madonna from the back row). I studied the libretti beforehand, which helped me a lot in enjoying the performances.




Firenze

I've been to Florence before, and seriously prefer it in the off season. It was a bit too crowded during the peak, and I got a sense that the locals were just about ready for tourist season to end. Some places to explore, beyond the obivious:

The Palazzo Vecchio Secret Passages tour though Cosimo Medici's private chambers, and then above the Hall of 500 to see the architecture from the inside, was extremely well done and interesting. I'd highly recommend it. In addition, the views from the top of the Palazzo were wonderful, and worth the extra cost.

The Basilica di Santa Croce was cool. I was surprised just how interesting it was to see the tombs of Galileo, Michelangelo, Dante, & Machiavelli.



The Bargello is one of my favorite museums in Florence and is strangely under visited. It has a couple Michelangelo pieces, but you really come here for the beautiful Donatello marbles and bronzes. The tour groups skip this one, and so you have more space to admire the works with other art lovers.


Donatello's David is much softer and more feminine than Michelangelo's

The views from San Miniato al Monte are beautiful at dusk. Some evenings they have Gregorian mass, which is haunting and soulful. This is just up the hill from the Piazza di Michelangelo, which is packed with thousands of people at sunset. It's much more peaceful higher up!


And finally: Meet Stefano Salvatori of the Accademia del Buon Gusto in Panzano in Chianti:



We spent an afternoon at the Academy of Good Taste, and it was the best and most fun wine tasting / wine class I have ever attended - and I do to a lot of wine tastings. Stefano only stocks wines from a 35 km radius from his house, and presents his highly personal take on Chianti, which is refreshingly different from the standard Robert P. take on wine. I loved it.

[tangleweeds]

Thank you! These have been delightful posts to read. The photos bring your words to life.

[Arnaud]

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[rdearman]

Bella Italia. I am curious to know if they would still speak in Italian to a bald guy like me without hair product?

[sfuqua]

This is an awesome set of posts. Thanks for sharing

[Mohave]

What an amazing trip! Thanks as always for sharing your adventures and how you bring your language journey to life!

[kanewai]

Vocabulary Lesson: Italian Street Food

I've gained weight just sorting through these pictures.

Pizza e pizzetta!

I always though pizza Margherita was the most boring pizza choice possible, but now I get it. Naple's pizza is all about the bread, and the bread is so delicious that all you need or want is a brush of tomato paste on top. There was always a long line to get an inside table, but it was just as much fun to join the crowds at the window and order a slice as it came out of the oven.




Venetian pizza was heavier on the toppings (top pic). It was delicious, but still couldn't match Naples. Florentine pizza was more American style. Some of the guys with us insisted on having lots of pizza in Florence, because we were in Italy and Italians created pizza. We tried to explain that food was a regional thing, and that Tuscany wasn't known for pizza. They wouldn't listen, and so they ate lots of average pizzas.




Back to Napoli: Misto terra was a cup full of fried doughy goodies; the only things I recognized were arancini and polenta. Misto mare was a cup full of fried seafood. These are some filling snacks! They were big enough to share, but everyone I watched would order one per person. The seafood cup was good, but heavy - I prefer the Japanese tempura style we find at home. But I would love some arancini right now.




Granita is Sicilian, but I saw granita stands throughout Campania too.



Still in Naples: Sfogliatella are cream-filled pastries that you start your day with. And cannoli are everywhere. Pictured are cannoli con ricotta di bufala, which I found on a buffalo farm that also had magical things like gelato, panne, and yogurt made out of buffalo milk.




Verona took the prize, though, for morning goodies:



For a classic Florentine treat, try a lampredotto (tripe) roll. You can order them at carts all over the city, or head to the new (and awesome) mercato centrale.



In Padova I learned what a folperia is - a seafood shack specializing in octopus. The octopus are boiled whole, and the chef guts them, chops them, and serves them in a parsley sauce to order. I had no idea how to order an octopus, but I knew how to say "hi I'm new here and I don't know what I'm doing."






Aperitivo are food served at Florence bars during happy hour. We struck out with the free buffets, but scored with a small bar serving a 'Tuscan Sampler' board that was heavy on tartuffe (truffles) and crema di balsamico ( a syrup made with balsamic vinegar). Also pictured: chinotto, a soft drink flavored with bitter orange.




The best of all this, though, were the cicchetti in Venice. These are afternoon snacks served at small bàcari, working class bars, out in the neighborhoods. We saw some near the tourist center, but none came close to the wonders we had in the hoods. They are served with a spritz (prossecco or wine / campari or aperol or cynar / and soda)., or with an ombra - a 'shadow,' or a quarter glass of wine.

Spritz is a Venetian drink, but I saw it everywhere this trip.

Key cicchetti terms to watch for: ton (tuna), acciughe (anchovies), baccalà (pureed salt cod), carciofi (artichokes), polpo (octopus), and lardo (prosciutto made out of pork fat).








That took longer than I thought. I didn't even get to the pasta yet! Next post.

[sfuqua]

Awesome post!
Keep it up!
If knowing Italian lets me eat some of that food, I'm starting studying...