When do you think US-EU travel will be allowed again?

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PeterMollenburg
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Re: When do you think US-EU travel will be allowed again?

Postby PeterMollenburg » Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:01 am

tractor wrote:Well, refuting conspiracy theories is not the same as stifling diversity.


Perhaps you are correct, but these days anyone labelled a conspiracy theorist is almost hunted down or rooted out as if xenophobia has struck the conformist population, and I don't think it's fair or great for diversity of opinions.
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Re: When do you think US-EU travel will be allowed again?

Postby tarvos » Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:43 am

PeterMollenburg wrote:
tractor wrote:Well, refuting conspiracy theories is not the same as stifling diversity.


Perhaps you are correct, but these days anyone labelled a conspiracy theorist is almost hunted down or rooted out as if xenophobia has struck the conformist population, and I don't think it's fair or great for diversity of opinions.


Perhaps because it's dangerous for public health and lives are on the line????

There's no opinion to be had.
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Re: When do you think US-EU travel will be allowed again?

Postby tarvos » Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:46 am

PeterMollenburg wrote:
tarvos wrote:
PeterMollenburg wrote:I'm going to point out some things....

• While the US death rate is soaring the CDC (Centre for Disease Control) figures show NO change in the overall death rate over last 6 months compared with last 2.5 years. There is no evidence of a pandemic.
• The so-called virus has not been isolated = evidence is yet to be provided that the virus actually exists.
• If it exists, the CDC again provides figures. If you divide deaths by overall figures on their website you get a 0.039% death rate. Pandemic? No.
• There are hospital financial incentives in the US to diagnose patients with Covid.
• There are hospital financial incentives to use more ventilators.
• Allegations Drs are being encoraged to write down Covid as cause of death in patients with multiple comorbidities
• Testing extremely unreliable
• Statistics can always be manipulated.


I don't think linking to conspiracy theorists will help your cause


No, neither do I, but for the record they are doctors, biologists, pathologists


Then why did you just link to conspiracy theorists?
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Re: When do you think US-EU travel will be allowed again?

Postby PeterMollenburg » Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:04 am

tarvos wrote:
PeterMollenburg wrote:
tractor wrote:Well, refuting conspiracy theories is not the same as stifling diversity.


Perhaps you are correct, but these days anyone labelled a conspiracy theorist is almost hunted down or rooted out as if xenophobia has struck the conformist population, and I don't think it's fair or great for diversity of opinions.


Perhaps because it's dangerous for public health and lives are on the line????

There's no opinion to be had.


It is arguably also dangerous to simply conform. Do you think I choose my views for fun? I work in health care, do you think my views are welcome there? Do you think I arrived at these views based on heresay and rubbish? I had to consider very carefully the rabbit hole I was going down. I have called the practise of my own career into question. Do you think that is easy?

tarvos wrote:Perhaps because it's dangerous for public health and lives are on the line????

There's no opinion to be had.


There's no opinion to be had? You should know what it's like to feel singled out. I ask that you do not play the same game with me that I'm certain others have regrettably played with you. There is value in respecting diversity. I have not put lives at danger.

If health is on the line why are vaccines the only solution? Why is there nothing coming out of the official establishment on strengthening one's own immune system? (zinc, vit C, vit D). Believe it or not your state of health and immune strength matters. No, best to just but leave it to Big Pharma, render us helpless, destroy the global economy over a virus. Makes sense.

Like I said anything against the mainstream is labelled 'conspiracy', thus the website is labelled as such and conveniently discredited. I linked to Dr's, a senior pathologist, microbioligist etc.
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Re: When do you think US-EU travel will be allowed again?

Postby tarvos » Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:12 am

Yeah. Uh-huh. OK. I think this discussion is over because I really don't think you're getting what about 4 different people have been trying to tell you in this thread. I'm sure you feel personally attacked, and I'm sure you're offended, but I do not think this discussion is going anywhere if you're going to just regurgitate the same old conspiracy theory points again.

Some have done so in an explanatory tone of voice and some have gotten particularly upset at you, all for their own reasons. If you want to persist in being bull-headed, that's all there is then. You do you, but the consequences are on you, kid.
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Re: When do you think US-EU travel will be allowed again?

Postby rdearman » Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:35 am

Please play nicely. Let's keep the topics related to LANGUAGES please.
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Re: When do you think US-EU travel will be allowed again?

Postby PeterMollenburg » Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:43 am

tarvos wrote:Yeah. Uh-huh. OK. I think this discussion is over because I really don't think you're getting what about 4 different people have been trying to tell you in this thread. I'm sure you feel personally attacked, and I'm sure you're offended, but I do not think this discussion is going anywhere if you're going to just regurgitate the same old conspiracy theory points again.

Some have done so in an explanatory tone of voice and some have gotten particularly upset at you, all for their own reasons. If you want to persist in being bull-headed, that's all there is then. You do you, but the consequences are on you, kid.


As indicated, it's not been an easy path for me, but I do not feel personally attacked at all. Quite the contrary. I understand the frustrations and anger towards me/my views and whether it is taken by others as blatantly offensive or mildly irritating, my aim is not to do so. In fact, I've wanted to present another angle, albeit a very unpopular one, and I do this because I care, which is why I entered health care. If the majority of ppl hold a certain view, that does not make them correct per sé (nor automatically incorrect either).

Despite being banished to the 'irresponsable reckless endangering lives' corner, I shall continue to appreciate all of you on this website regardless of what your conclusions are of me and my views. I honestly mean no harm. In fact whether I'm correct or not matters little, I'd like to see people consider other angles. In other words, do not instantly accept what you see on TV as the truth. Consider these quotes:

Until you realize how easy it is for your mind to be manipulated, you remain the puppet of someone else's game.

Evita Ochel

In dictatorships the media is controlled by the State. In democracies the media is controlled by wealthy individuals with political affiliations. Objective media and journalists simply do not exist in the mainstream

Robert Black

One of the greatest responsibilities for the people of our time is to accept everything that he hears in the pro-government media as a lie and to investigate the truth from independent sources personally!

Mehmet Murat ildan

Today a story is not told it's sold.

Amit Abraham

Beware of pro-government media in your country, because it doesn’t open your eyes, it just makes you blind!

Mehmet Murat ildan

As information and voice amplification become the new symbols of power, those who would assume control of society have moved to hoard voice amplification and control the message received by the public in new ways.

Heather Marsh

I saw this after I posted:
rdearman wrote:Please play nicely. Let's keep the topics related to LANGUAGES please.


Agreed
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Re: When do you think US-EU travel will be allowed again?

Postby Saim » Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:01 am

PeterMollenburg wrote:
rdearman wrote:Please play nicely. Let's keep the topics related to LANGUAGES please.


Agreed


You're the one who derailed the topic in the first place and now you're insisting on having the last word even after pretty much everyone has told you to you to stop. This also isn't the first topic you've derailed with rants about "the globalists". You can claim you agree but your actions say otherwise.
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Re: When do you think US-EU travel will be allowed again?

Postby PeterMollenburg » Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:18 am

Saim wrote:
PeterMollenburg wrote:
rdearman wrote:Please play nicely. Let's keep the topics related to LANGUAGES please.


Agreed


You're the one who derailed the topic in the first place and now you're insisting on having the last word even after pretty much everyone has told you to you to stop. This also isn't the first topic you've derailed with rants about "the globalists". You can claim you agree but your actions say otherwise.


Yes it was me who derailed it. I did not make the decision to stop, rdearman made that for me.I did not insist, I agreed to stop. I had a 'final say' as I was replying to some comments directed at me, just as I am now. Do you want a trophy for your pointing out the obvious? Or would you prefer others were allowed a final say too?

Edit: I feel globalisation has an impact on languages and in the current context my ability to one day use them in their native countries. I love language learning just like the rest of us here, and like my nursing being impacted, due to my beliefs it appears as though my opportunities to use my languages overseas are being taken away from me unless I do something to me and my family I fundamentally profoundly disagree with.

Being a language learning community I attempted to share this. Perhaps I went about it the wrong way or I should've held my tongue. It seems I never learn.

What if you followed a certain religion while everyone else were atheists and you were slammed for your views and told u were no longer welcome in other countries because you would not compromise your values and have a blood infusion which goes against your religion?

Instead of being understood here as having a different point of view on things to the mainstream media, I am shut down and told REDACTED. It does relate to languages as I may be learning languages that i may not ever be able to use abroad (this is the root cause of my globalism derailing), I am targeted and basically told my views are nothing but BS. I walked into it I should've known better. I shall leave you be.
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Re: When do you think US-EU travel will be allowed again?

Postby tarvos » Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:35 pm

What if you followed a certain religion while everyone else were atheists and you were slammed for your views and told u were no longer welcome in other countries because you would not compromise your values and have a blood infusion which goes against your religion?


Well, here's the thing; it's all fine and dandy to have views, but once these impact public health (i.e. the lives of a third party) and that means that your ramblings literally cause other people's death, then legally, yes, we're kind of obliged to hold you accountable. So if you want to have that on your conscience, be my guest. I still don't think you understand this is not about you. You ignoring tried and tested scientific facts that will cause disease, death, grief and have caused thousands of unnecessary deaths in badly-governed countries due to the espousal of precisely these views is exactly what we're trying to point out here. Because of that, yes, the government is legally allowed to infringe on your liberties.

We've said it before and we'll say it again. There is no opinion to be had when you are putting the lives of others at stake. I don't care what your religious views are or how goofball your idiosyncrasies on chemtrails and the global warming conspiracy (although on this last one I'd probably invoke the same reasoning), keep your distance, if you're sick, stay at home, and wear a mask in public.

It means people don't die. People close to you. Your mom, your dad, your kids, your partner, your friends, that butcher down the street, the woman that told you she loved you for the first time but you rejected her because you're a gay man, WHATEVER.

That's all there is to it. Pig-headed denial of these facts, yes, will lead to ostracism precisely because people are appalled you'd not just threaten your own life and sanity but theirs as well.
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