When do you think US-EU travel will be allowed again?

This is a room for the discussion of travel plans or experiences and the culture of places you have visited or plan to visit.
User avatar
PeterMollenburg
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2613
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:54 am
Location: Australia
Languages: English (N), French (B2-certified), Dutch (High A2?), Spanish (~A1), German (long-forgotten 99%), Norwegian (false starts in 2020)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... f=15&t=784
x 5600

Re: When do you think US-EU travel will be allowed again?

Postby PeterMollenburg » Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:26 am

lavengro wrote:
PeterMollenburg wrote:
tarvos wrote:
PeterMollenburg wrote:I'm going to point out some things....

• While the US death rate is soaring the CDC (Centre for Disease Control) figures show NO change in the overall death rate over last 6 months compared with last 2.5 years. There is no evidence of a pandemic.
• The so-called virus has not been isolated = evidence is yet to be provided that the virus actually exists.
• If it exists, the CDC again provides figures. If you divide deaths by overall figures on their website you get a 0.039% death rate. Pandemic? No.
• There are hospital financial incentives in the US to diagnose patients with Covid.
• There are hospital financial incentives to use more ventilators.
• Allegations Drs are being encoraged to write down Covid as cause of death in patients with multiple comorbidities
• Testing extremely unreliable
• Statistics can always be manipulated.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/no-one-ha ... us/5717668

https://www.globalresearch.ca/manufactu ... 19/5707781

https://www.globalresearch.ca/video-cov ... bi/5712274

https://www.globalresearch.ca/covid19-p ... ss/5717253

https://www.globalresearch.ca/covid-19- ... ry/5709304

https://www.globalresearch.ca/covid-19- ... ms/5714415

https://thefreedomarticles.com/plenty-o ... ov2-study/

https://www.bitchute.com/video/64wfcVjCBaDC/


I don't think linking to conspiracy theorists will help your cause


No, neither do I, but for the record they are doctors, biologists, pathologists

Not for a pile-on here Peter, and with every respect for a diversity of views but with a nod to the importance of reliable information concerning an important health issue: the first 6 of 8 articles are from the Centre for Research on Globalization, which I understand is a fairly notorious Canadian website for conspiracy theorists (sidenote: never trust a Canadian). This from Wikipedia concerning the founder and director of the Centre:

"Michel Chossudovsky (born 1946) is a Canadian economist, author and conspiracy theorist.[1][2] He is professor emeritus of economics at the University of Ottawa[3][4] and the president and director of the Centre for Research on Globalization (CRG), which runs the website globalresearch.ca and publishes conspiracy theories.[5][6][7][8] Chossudovsky has promoted 9/11 conspiracy theories.[9][10][13][14]

In 2017, the Centre for Research on Globalization was accused by information warfare specialists at NATO’s Strategic Communications Centre of Excellence (STRATCOM) of playing a key role in the spread of pro-Russian propaganda.[6] The CRG was also accused of spreading Chinese propaganda.[15][16]"


ETA: I've checked out the 7th source you cite (thefreedomarticles.com): the very first drop-down menu on their site is entitled "Conspiracy" with some really-quite-out-there topics.


First of all, thank you for your opening statements. Beginning with respectful statements but disagreeing is certainly a healthy way to discuss this.

With regards to the website I would say two thigs. First, if the 'system' does not want such views to 'get out' where else to find such information but conspiracy sources?

Secondly, if you don't trust me, look at the doctors, pathologists and other people's credentials involved. Finally, analyse the CDC data for yourself, look behind the media, seek verification yourself.

Finally, with Big Pharma standing to gain billions from mass vaccination programs (in itself a serious conflict of interest), if you follow the $ (or fear of losing $) it will be quite revealing what motivates the actions of x organisation, y media and z leader of country ABC.

Look at the CDC figures yourself. Find the evidence that a virus has been isolated.

Thank you, for your respectful disagreement ;)
1 x

User avatar
tastyonions
Blue Belt
Posts: 961
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 5:39 pm
Location: Dallas, TX
Languages: EN (N), FR, ES, IT, PT, DE, NL
x 1872

Re: When do you think US-EU travel will be allowed again?

Postby tastyonions » Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:15 am

Not isolated? How about sequenced?

"First cases of coronavirus disease (COVID-19) in Brazil, South America (2 genomes, 3rd March 2020)": https://virological.org/t/first-cases-o ... h-2020/409
"Sequencing the genome of the virus behind COVID-19": https://hub.jhu.edu/2020/03/30/covid-19 ... equencing/
"Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 isolate Wuhan-Hu-1, complete genome": https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/NC_045512

Credentials involved? Let's look at this link that you gave: https://www.globalresearch.ca/manufactu ... 19/5707781
The following is from a medical forum. The writer, who is a widely respected professional scientist in the US, prefers to stay anonymous, because presenting any narrative different than the official one can cause you a lot of stress in the toxic environment caused by the scam which surrounds COVID-19 these days.

Some randomass person from some unnamed medical forum, who may or may not be a doctor. Great source! My, what a critical thinker you are!

Seriously, this is the quality you're coming at this with? If you're buying into some goofy theory that doesn't do anyone any harm, fine, live and let live. But if you're spreading misinformation based on piss poor sources with the potential to cause people not to confront this disease with the seriousness it deserves and even put themselves in danger, then that deserves no "respect." Zero, zip.

REDACTED by Admin, refer to rules of no swearing !
4 x

User avatar
tastyonions
Blue Belt
Posts: 961
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 5:39 pm
Location: Dallas, TX
Languages: EN (N), FR, ES, IT, PT, DE, NL
x 1872

Re: When do you think US-EU travel will be allowed again?

Postby tastyonions » Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:29 am

Finally, analyse the CDC data for yourself, look behind the media, seek verification yourself.

Think about what you just said for two seconds and you'll realize it doesn't hold up. There's a vastly powerful conspiracy to push mandatory vaccination, involving governments and scientists from around the world, yet they're somehow not even capable of falsifying the data available on the CDC pages to give it all more credibility?

This is always how it is with conspiracy theories, though. There's some enormous shadowy cabal at the level of the world's most powerful governments, yet somehow it never escapes the detection of plucky YouTube conspiracy theorists. They make media and institutions the world over dance like marionettes and yet slip up enough to be found out easily with some Google searches. Right. Makes a ton of sense.
10 x

User avatar
PeterMollenburg
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2613
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:54 am
Location: Australia
Languages: English (N), French (B2-certified), Dutch (High A2?), Spanish (~A1), German (long-forgotten 99%), Norwegian (false starts in 2020)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... f=15&t=784
x 5600

Re: When do you think US-EU travel will be allowed again?

Postby PeterMollenburg » Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:35 am

tastyonions wrote:Not isolated? How about sequenced?

"First cases of coronavirus disease (COVID-19) in Brazil, South America (2 genomes, 3rd March 2020)": https://virological.org/t/first-cases-o ... h-2020/409
"Sequencing the genome of the virus behind COVID-19": https://hub.jhu.edu/2020/03/30/covid-19 ... equencing/
"Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 isolate Wuhan-Hu-1, complete genome": https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/NC_045512

Credentials involved? Let's look at this link that you gave: https://www.globalresearch.ca/manufactu ... 19/5707781
The following is from a medical forum. The writer, who is a widely respected professional scientist in the US, prefers to stay anonymous, because presenting any narrative different than the official one can cause you a lot of stress in the toxic environment caused by the scam which surrounds COVID-19 these days.

Some randomass person from some unnamed medical forum, who may or may not be a doctor. Great source! My, what a critical thinker you are!

Seriously, this is the quality you're coming at this with? If you're buying into some goofy theory that doesn't do anyone any harm, fine, live and let live. But if you're spreading misinformation based on piss poor sources with the potential to cause people not to confront this disease with the seriousness it deserves and even put themselves in danger, then that deserves no "respect." Zero, zip.

REDACTED right off with this nonsense.


That was not the only link i provided, I'm happy to be proven wrong, however as much distrust as you have of my sources I have of mainstream sources. The video was from an MD/psychiatrist/microbioligist speaking out. I never advised anyone not to take precautions and I'm not advising that now. My distrust comes from mountains of lies and propaganda spread throughout democratic societies for eons. Governments have no respect for most human life has been my conclusion, thus I do not trust the official narrative especially when pushed by Big Pharma. Not to mention the CDC figures again, indicative of no pandemic. I knew such reaction was likely. I get it. This is not an easy stance for me, especially working in health care - I'd much rather be wrong. I'm sorry you feel that way towards my point of view, but my respect for your position (and the vast majority of ppl) remains.
1 x

User avatar
tastyonions
Blue Belt
Posts: 961
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 5:39 pm
Location: Dallas, TX
Languages: EN (N), FR, ES, IT, PT, DE, NL
x 1872

Re: When do you think US-EU travel will be allowed again?

Postby tastyonions » Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:08 am

PeterMollenburg wrote:Not to mention the CDC figures again, indicative of no pandemic.

Think about what I said above about the CDC. Governments all over the world, with all the power and resources that would entail, are conspiring on behalf of big pharma, yet they somehow forgot to falsify the CDC numbers that supposedly prove that "their" virus is a hoax? How does that make one bit of sense?

These theories are tissue-thin and if you apply the same level of doubt to them that you do to the "mainstream" narrative, you will see that straight away.
7 x

User avatar
PeterMollenburg
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2613
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:54 am
Location: Australia
Languages: English (N), French (B2-certified), Dutch (High A2?), Spanish (~A1), German (long-forgotten 99%), Norwegian (false starts in 2020)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... f=15&t=784
x 5600

Re: When do you think US-EU travel will be allowed again?

Postby PeterMollenburg » Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:18 am

tastyonions wrote:
Finally, analyse the CDC data for yourself, look behind the media, seek verification yourself.

Think about what you just said for two seconds and you'll realize it doesn't hold up. There's a vastly powerful conspiracy to push mandatory vaccination, involving governments and scientists from around the world, yet they're somehow not even capable of falsifying the data available on the CDC pages to give it all more credibility?

This is always how it is with conspiracy theories, though. There's some enormous shadowy cabal at the level of the world's most powerful governments, yet somehow it never escapes the detection of plucky YouTube conspiracy theorists. They make media and institutions the world over dance like marionettes and yet slip up enough to be found out easily with some Google searches. Right. Makes a ton of sense.


Death rates are hard to falsify, but that's an assumption on my part. Cause of death can be noted as Covid easily if a positive test has been produced at some point by the patient despite cause of death being sth else. This explains no rise in overall death rates but soaring covid cause of death (covid deaths).

I write to from my job the last 2 days. Pop up fever clinic testing the public for Covid-19. I can assure you that I'm following all the rules. I am not suggesting ppl don't. I am not a scientist/Dr etc so i will not suggest as such and I have an income to earn so I am not so reckless. I have read that the virus has not been isolated, OR that it isn't as severe as media portrays. It does not hurt to look into these alternate views, but agreed reckless behaviour is not advisable.
2 x

User avatar
lavengro
Blue Belt
Posts: 541
Joined: Wed May 24, 2017 1:39 am
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Languages: ENGLISH (N); FRENCH (A2 - conservatively self-estimated); SPANISH (A1 - recklessly self-asserted); ITALIAN (non parlo italiano - yet); ITHKUIL (only in my nightmares); GERMAN (ich bin ein Anfänger - currently A0); JAPANESE (against my better judgment - barely A0); GÀIDHLIG? (A-nis tha mi brònach); LANG BELTA? (Walowda ámolof fo kowl beltalowda); start FINNISH? (maybe ...).
x 1211

Re: When do you think US-EU travel will be allowed again?

Postby lavengro » Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:12 am

My spidey sense detected some salty language being used in this thread that in addition to being squarely against a reasonably unambiguous forum rule ("...swearing is forbidden ...") is also against common courtesy and contrary to what I expect we would all prefer in a forum here: a place where ideas can be exchanged without significant risk that you will be told to REDACTED right off.
4 x
"Blaming a bridge collapse on a school is like blaming owls for why I suck at analogies."
- Britta Perry, of course.

tractor
Orange Belt
Posts: 119
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2016 10:58 am
Location: Norway
Languages: Norwegian (N), English, Spanish, Catalan, French, German, Latin
x 193

Re: When do you think US-EU travel will be allowed again?

Postby tractor » Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:34 am

Maybe the rule against discussing religion and politics should be amended to include conspiracy theories.
7 x

User avatar
PeterMollenburg
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2613
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:54 am
Location: Australia
Languages: English (N), French (B2-certified), Dutch (High A2?), Spanish (~A1), German (long-forgotten 99%), Norwegian (false starts in 2020)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... f=15&t=784
x 5600

Re: When do you think US-EU travel will be allowed again?

Postby PeterMollenburg » Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:52 am

tractor wrote:Maybe the rule against discussing religion and politics should be amended to include conspiracy theories.


As dangerous as conspiracy theories might be, advocating for an agreed consensus on what 'normal' is, is an agrrement to stifle diversity. Most of us language learners would be inclined to agree that diversity matters and some might go as far to say it's essential.
4 x

tractor
Orange Belt
Posts: 119
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2016 10:58 am
Location: Norway
Languages: Norwegian (N), English, Spanish, Catalan, French, German, Latin
x 193

Re: When do you think US-EU travel will be allowed again?

Postby tractor » Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:28 am

Well, refuting conspiracy theories is not the same as stifling diversity.
0 x


Return to “Travel and Culture”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest