When do you think US-EU travel will be allowed again?

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Re: When do you think US-EU travel will be allowed again?

Postby tastyonions » Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:47 pm

PeterMollenburg wrote:I work in health care and I have not seen nor heard of one death from covid in my work travels (and i work at several locations)
Lucky you. Here in the good old US of A we are at 135,000 dead and counting. Almost 11,000 new cases in my state yesterday.
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Re: When do you think US-EU travel will be allowed again?

Postby slowmoon » Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:47 pm

PeterMollenburg wrote:I know the OP asked about US-EU travel, but I just want to share a little...

I cannot leave my state currently. Civil liberties are being eroded (yet again) and governments would appear to be acting on hyperbole for our own good? :roll: I work in health care and I have not seen nor heard of one death from covid in my work travels (and i work at several locations) yet I cannot cross my state border. C'mon people, I don't know about you, but I would struggle to recall when such care for us little folk had last been demonstrated - oh hang on, lots of care was taken to spy on us when terrorism became global. I'm afraid I could be permanently stuck in my state or country (at least it's big). At best, we might be able to visit New Caledonia again, but given that involves a boat or plane, I think I'm Australia-bound for good. I can't imagine I'll give up on languages but the situation is akin to a global dictatorship and motivation is on the downside.


The tradeoff between safety and freedom comes down to personal preferences shaped by our individual experiences, temperaments, and so on. Some people will give up almost all of one to have the other, and they will look upon their opposites with confusion, disgust, or anger. I'm sure we have people that span the entire spectrum here, and could have many pages of debate, but that won't be productive. We're not the ones who make the rules. We can only react to them. These border closures and other measures have a good chance of going on for a while, and a good portion of the world's population supports them. That's going to make frequent travel and nomadic lifestyles difficult. I was traveling for at least several months per year for the past several years, so this has upended my lifestyle completely. For me, this doesn't make me want to quit German, because I want to read German literature and use German for work. But if travel is an important part of why someone is learning a language, I wouldn't blame them for switching languages or switching focus away from languages altogether. Life is short.
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Re: When do you think US-EU travel will be allowed again?

Postby lavengro » Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:54 pm

PeterMollenburg wrote:I know the OP asked about US-EU travel, but I just want to share a little...

I cannot leave my state currently. Civil liberties are being eroded (yet again) and governments would appear to be acting on hyperbole for our own good? :roll: I work in health care and I have not seen nor heard of one death from covid in my work travels (and i work at several locations) yet I cannot cross my state border. C'mon people, I don't know about you, but I would struggle to recall when such care for us little folk had last been demonstrated - oh hang on, lots of care was taken to spy on us when terrorism became global. I'm afraid I could be permanently stuck in my state or country (at least it's big). At best, we might be able to visit New Caledonia again, but given that involves a boat or plane, I think I'm Australia-bound for good. I can't imagine I'll give up on languages but the situation is akin to a global dictatorship and motivation is on the downside.


There is certainly a diversity of opinions concerning the steps taken in response to the COVID-19 pandemic. Some countries have clamped down hard, with success in limiting the spread of COVID-19, and others have taken a more relaxed approach, with less success in limiting COVID-19 transmission. Generally, I have understood that those directly involved in health care have been strong proponents of active, comprehensive pandemic steps, so your opinion as a health care worker is of interest.

But just for clarity, are you disputing that there have been COVID-19 related deaths in Australia simply because you personally have not seen or heard of one? There is all sorts of media reports that Australia, while lightly-touched in this regard to date thankfully, currently has experienced 111 to 114 COVID-19 related deaths. There is a way to keep those numbers mercifully low, and it involves a bit of temporary collective and personal sacrifice, but I would have thought a health care professional would be strongly advocating for those sacrifices.

If there is a global dictatorship, it is abysmally-run given the diversity of approaches demonstrated across any number of countries.
Last edited by lavengro on Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: When do you think US-EU travel will be allowed again?

Postby tarvos » Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:55 pm

PeterMollenburg wrote:I know the OP asked about US-EU travel, but I just want to share a little...

I cannot leave my state currently. Civil liberties are being eroded (yet again) and governments would appear to be acting on hyperbole for our own good? :roll: I work in health care and I have not seen nor heard of one death from covid in my work travels (and i work at several locations) yet I cannot cross my state border. C'mon people, I don't know about you, but I would struggle to recall when such care for us little folk had last been demonstrated - oh hang on, lots of care was taken to spy on us when terrorism became global. I'm afraid I could be permanently stuck in my state or country (at least it's big). At best, we might be able to visit New Caledonia again, but given that involves a boat or plane, I think I'm Australia-bound for good. I can't imagine I'll give up on languages but the situation is akin to a global dictatorship and motivation is on the downside.


Corona is a serious disease. Do not take these safety measures lightly. Just because your state does not have that many deaths or because you have not heard of them doesn't mean they don't exist. I know of very severe cases, worse than my own, that will require months of revalidation, and even cases of death for youngsters. It's completely irresponsible what you are asking for. Even if you are healthy, you could be an asymptomatic carrier and infect others.

No one wants to infringe on your liberty - the economic damages for economies run in the billions, if not trillions. The hell, that's the reason other countries have not taken such drastic measures.
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Re: When do you think US-EU travel will be allowed again?

Postby jmar257 » Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:21 pm

Without trying to reveal too much about myself, I work in a travel-related industry for a big company you've heard of and probably used. I've not heard of specific dates when we expect more tourism travel to start or anything (or about specific countries dropping restrictions), but we're thinking it'll be next summer before international travel is back to resembling "normal" in terms of volume and our leaders are preparing for (expecting, but not hoping for of course) a second wave when the weather gets cold. Personally, I'm thinking/hoping that while there may be increases when the temperature drops it won't be as bad as before--there's better treatments, way more people wearing masks and distancing (yes, not everyone, but a lot more than in March), and you don't have moronic governors insisting you live without fear and go out and about like you did in February/early March. But we'll see. For my paycheck/job security, I want people traveling, for my health and that of my loved ones, stay home and take precautions if you have to go out.

As far as personally traveling, I'm not expecting I'll be going internationally until 2021, which ruins a lot of my plans, but not necessarily because I can't, just because I'm being overly cautious.
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Re: When do you think US-EU travel will be allowed again?

Postby tractor » Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:24 pm

Learning a language is a long-term project. Travel restrictions will eventually be lifted. Then we can reap the benefits of the work we put into learning languages today.
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Re: When do you think US-EU travel will be allowed again?

Postby PeterMollenburg » Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:23 pm

I'm going to point out some things....

• While the US death rate is soaring the CDC (Centre for Disease Control) figures show NO change in the overall death rate over last 6 months compared with last 2.5 years. There is no evidence of a pandemic.
• The so-called virus has not been isolated = evidence is yet to be provided that the virus actually exists.
• If it exists, the CDC again provides figures. If you divide deaths by overall figures on their website you get a 0.039% death rate. Pandemic? No.
• There are hospital financial incentives in the US to diagnose patients with Covid.
• There are hospital financial incentives to use more ventilators.
• Allegations Drs are being encoraged to write down Covid as cause of death in patients with multiple comorbidities
• Testing extremely unreliable
• Statistics can always be manipulated.
Last edited by Serpent on Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: When do you think US-EU travel will be allowed again?

Postby tarvos » Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:28 pm

PeterMollenburg wrote:I'm going to point out some things....

• While the US death rate is soaring the CDC (Centre for Disease Control) figures show NO change in the overall death rate over last 6 months compared with last 2.5 years. There is no evidence of a pandemic.
• The so-called virus has not been isolated = evidence is yet to be provided that the virus actually exists.
• If it exists, the CDC again provides figures. If you divide deaths by overall figures on their website you get a 0.039% death rate. Pandemic? No.
• There are hospital financial incentives in the US to diagnose patients with Covid.
• There are hospital financial incentives to use more ventilators.
• Allegations Drs are being encoraged to write down Covid as cause of death in patients with multiple comorbidities
• Testing extremely unreliable
• Statistics can always be manipulated.


I don't think linking to conspiracy theorists will help your cause
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Re: When do you think US-EU travel will be allowed again?

Postby PeterMollenburg » Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:31 pm

tarvos wrote:
PeterMollenburg wrote:I'm going to point out some things....

• While the US death rate is soaring the CDC (Centre for Disease Control) figures show NO change in the overall death rate over last 6 months compared with last 2.5 years. There is no evidence of a pandemic.
• The so-called virus has not been isolated = evidence is yet to be provided that the virus actually exists.
• If it exists, the CDC again provides figures. If you divide deaths by overall figures on their website you get a 0.039% death rate. Pandemic? No.
• There are hospital financial incentives in the US to diagnose patients with Covid.
• There are hospital financial incentives to use more ventilators.
• Allegations Drs are being encoraged to write down Covid as cause of death in patients with multiple comorbidities
• Testing extremely unreliable
• Statistics can always be manipulated.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/no-one-ha ... us/5717668

https://www.globalresearch.ca/manufactu ... 19/5707781

https://www.globalresearch.ca/video-cov ... bi/5712274

https://www.globalresearch.ca/covid19-p ... ss/5717253

https://www.globalresearch.ca/covid-19- ... ry/5709304

https://www.globalresearch.ca/covid-19- ... ms/5714415

https://thefreedomarticles.com/plenty-o ... ov2-study/

https://www.bitchute.com/video/64wfcVjCBaDC/


I don't think linking to conspiracy theorists will help your cause


No, neither do I, but for the record they are doctors, biologists, pathologists
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Re: When do you think US-EU travel will be allowed again?

Postby lavengro » Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:40 pm

PeterMollenburg wrote:
tarvos wrote:
PeterMollenburg wrote:I'm going to point out some things....

• While the US death rate is soaring the CDC (Centre for Disease Control) figures show NO change in the overall death rate over last 6 months compared with last 2.5 years. There is no evidence of a pandemic.
• The so-called virus has not been isolated = evidence is yet to be provided that the virus actually exists.
• If it exists, the CDC again provides figures. If you divide deaths by overall figures on their website you get a 0.039% death rate. Pandemic? No.
• There are hospital financial incentives in the US to diagnose patients with Covid.
• There are hospital financial incentives to use more ventilators.
• Allegations Drs are being encoraged to write down Covid as cause of death in patients with multiple comorbidities
• Testing extremely unreliable
• Statistics can always be manipulated.


I don't think linking to conspiracy theorists will help your cause


No, neither do I, but for the record they are doctors, biologists, pathologists

Not for a pile-on here Peter, and with every respect for a diversity of views but with a nod to the importance of reliable information concerning an important health issue: the first 6 of 8 articles are from the Centre for Research on Globalization, which I understand is a fairly notorious Canadian website for conspiracy theorists (sidenote: never trust a Canadian). This from Wikipedia concerning the founder and director of the Centre:

"Michel Chossudovsky (born 1946) is a Canadian economist, author and conspiracy theorist.[1][2] He is professor emeritus of economics at the University of Ottawa[3][4] and the president and director of the Centre for Research on Globalization (CRG), which runs the website globalresearch.ca and publishes conspiracy theories.[5][6][7][8] Chossudovsky has promoted 9/11 conspiracy theories.[9][10][13][14]

In 2017, the Centre for Research on Globalization was accused by information warfare specialists at NATO’s Strategic Communications Centre of Excellence (STRATCOM) of playing a key role in the spread of pro-Russian propaganda.[6] The CRG was also accused of spreading Chinese propaganda.[15][16]"


ETA: I've checked out the 7th source you cite (thefreedomarticles.com): the very first drop-down menu on their site is entitled "Conspiracy" with some really-quite-out-there topics.
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