A language learners’ forum

For tourism. If we have to wait for COVID deaths to go to 0, we'll be waiting forever. I'm starting to think we'll have to wait until 2021.

To make this relevant for a language learning site, you would have to ask this question auf Deutsch or some other language you may be learning.

But to answer your question, not for quite a while I expect, although the criteria is not currently and is unlikely ever to be a zero death rate. Those smug bastards north of you, for example, continue to experience COVID-related deaths but tourism travel to Europe has I believe been green-lighted from here.

I am not currently using my Canadian passport and would be prepared to rent it out to anyone who looks similar enough to me (profile picture to the left of this message - I am the scruffy-looking one) to avoid having my passport confiscated. If either CSIS or CBSA happens to read this, I am just joking; for everyone else, just PM me.

slowmoon wrote:For tourism. If we have to wait for COVID deaths to go to 0, we'll be waiting forever. I'm starting to think we'll have to wait until 2021.

You could consider German speaking communities in the Americas as possible holiday destinations.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_ ... 3%9Cbersee

slowmoon wrote:For tourism. If we have to wait for COVID deaths to go to 0, we'll be waiting forever. I'm starting to think we'll have to wait until 2021.

It will have to wait until your R value has dropped below 1 significantly and your government has got the pandemic under control. Given the disastrous governance, this is not due to happen for a while. Please encourage your compatriots to observe basic hygiene and wear masks. It is the only way you will be able to get out of this situation.

But to answer your question, not for quite a while I expect, although the criteria is not currently and is unlikely ever to be a zero death rate. Those smug bastards north of you, for example, continue to experience COVID-related deaths but tourism travel to Europe has I believe been green-lighted from here.

Only essential work travel has been green-lighted; however family members etc. are allowed to return from a subset of 14 non-EU/schengen/whatever countries. Consult the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the relevant country in question or that of the European Union to be certain.

I know that our (Dutch) prime minister has stated that all EU/Schengen member states are welcome again, with the exception of people from Sweden (due to the situation there), and from certain regions in Spain and Portugal (Lisbon area). UK residents also remain unwelcome for the time being. Tourism is open to people from other EU/Schengen countries.

Borders are open (but tourism is not encouraged) for a range of countries, including Japan, South Korea, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Thailand, Algeria, and a few others. The US is not on this list due to the gravity of the pandemic there. China is approved depending on reciprocity (that is to say, Chinese citizens will be allowed work and business travel again if China approves EU/Schengen visitors).

As for tourism, I do not plan on touristic visits anywhere, but I will be travelling to Finland in September. That's officially a tourist visit, but I'm just going to see my girlfriend (and that's not green-lighted under essential travel as we are not married or registered partners). I think that tourism should probably be somewhat encouraged in local areas for economic reasons, but it should be very careful and done with great consideration as the pandemic is still in full swing and contagion values and infection rates can swing drastically. Also keep in mind that I'm talking here about what the Dutch government allows - this is different for every country. Finland only opened its borders to us on Monday.

As a rule of thumb, probably not until there is a similar rate of infection (ie. cases per 100,000 population) in both places. But who knows.

I'm based in the UK and although I am now allowed to travel to a number of other European countries for tourism, I'm still not prepared to do so. For me, the risk of getting caught up in a local lockdown either here or there is still too high to justify making holiday plans (but everyone's acceptance of risk is different, and that's ok as long as you're not breaking the law). I've pretty much written off the idea of travelling this year and am hoping for a better 2021.

Is this relevant to language learning? It's definitely threatened to derail my motivation. These days, the ability to travel to places where my target languages are spoken is very closely tied with my motivation to learn them. This wasn't always the case, but I've had to almost relearn a different way of thinking about the value of languages, otherwise I probably would have given up in despair. It shows how much I'd come to take the ease of travel across western Europe for granted. Still, I miss Berlin so much it hurts.

Yes, it has called me to question the point of my languague learning altogether and which language(s) I must focus on.

You will be able to return to intercontinental travel once humanity has too much to lose and is stupid enough to agree to be begging to accept the seemingly fantastic terms of the global ransom.

PeterMollenburg wrote:Yes, it has called me to question the point of my languague learning altogether and which language(s) I must focus on.

If we have to make this thread relevant to language learning, than this is where it becomes relevant. When choosing languages, I never considered the idea that the continents of Europe and Asia would become unavailable for long stretches of time. Though I should've looked at history and realized that this happened multiple times in the previous century in various regions for various reasons. If I decide to learn a new language in the future, it's almost certainly going to be a language used in my hemisphere. Bill Gates is already talking about Pandemic 2.0. Borders will close again. New viruses will appear. The prospect of this happening again multiple times in my lifetime makes me realize the value of local languages.

slowmoon wrote:

PeterMollenburg wrote:Yes, it has called me to question the point of my languague learning altogether and which language(s) I must focus on.

If we have to make this thread relevant to language learning, than this is where it becomes relevant. When choosing languages, I never considered the idea that the continents of Europe and Asia would become unavailable for long stretches of time. Though I should've looked at history and realized that this happened multiple times in the previous century in various regions for various reasons. If I decide to learn a new language in the future, it's almost certainly going to be a language used in my hemisphere. Bill Gates is already talking about Pandemic 2.0. Borders will close again. New viruses will appear. The prospect of this happening again multiple times in my lifetime makes me realize the value of local languages.

A wise decision

As an American, albeit one who lives in a forgotten little Caribbean backwater of the empire, I can't even go next door to Puerto Rico now without a two week quarantine. I can go to the US mainland, but all of our flights there change in Miami or Fort Lauderdale, Florida- one of the new epicenters of Covid19. Not to mention having to go through three or four airports to visit my family in the States. I don't really want to be in the Continental US now. Looks like I am stuck on the rock for a good long while.

As it affects language-learning, even if I don't travel to Europe or Brazil every year, I always knew I could if I wanted to do so. Now, with the possibility of travel taken away, it has affected my learning of Catalan. Knowing that I can't visit Spain this year... and possibly next year... and maybe for the next five years, takes away one of my main motivations for speaking the language, or even picking up a new one not spoken here. I got interested in Catalan when I was traveling in Spain a few years ago. I liked the sound of it, the familiarity and the unfamiliarity, the pride of the people in their language and culture. Not being able to travel is quite disheartening.

At least here, I do have the opportunity to speak Spanish and my Creole languages. Portuguese is a part of my life now despite the lack of local speaking opportunities. Ladino/Djudeo-espanyol has never been a speaking language because of the lack of availability of native-speakers in a dying language. I knew this from the start and accepted it. I never could travel to a Ladino-speaking country because there are none. I don't want to treat Catalan like I do Ladino and I don't really want to go through the language partner/tutor thing with it at present, even though I could do so easily enough. That may change in the future but right now, I'm just not that interested in making that effort. Still, a language is what you make of it. I know that. Sigh

I know the OP asked about US-EU travel, but I just want to share a little...

I cannot leave my state currently. Civil liberties are being eroded (yet again) and governments would appear to be acting on hyperbole for our own good? I work in health care and I have not seen nor heard of one death from covid in my work travels (and i work at several locations) yet I cannot cross my state border. C'mon people, I don't know about you, but I would struggle to recall when such care for us little folk had last been demonstrated - oh hang on, lots of care was taken to spy on us when terrorism became global. I'm afraid I could be permanently stuck in my state or country (at least it's big). At best, we might be able to visit New Caledonia again, but given that involves a boat or plane, I think I'm Australia-bound for good. I can't imagine I'll give up on languages but the situation is akin to a global dictatorship and motivation is on the downside.