The 2019 365 Day Language Challenge - Sign Up and Discussion

Ongoing language-learning challenges, and team challenge logs (but not individual logs)
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IronMike
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Re: The 2019 365 Day Language Challenge

Postby IronMike » Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:12 am

PeterMollenburg wrote:
languist wrote:I was planning on doing this anyway, privately, so I’m very happy to join publicly. Hmm, I guess for this year I’ll have to commit to “generic” daily language learning, because I’ll be studying Spanish consistently until the summer, and then I’ll be in Russia, and will probably have to switch to consistent Russian study for the second half of the year. With French alongside both.


Do you want to do just 'generic' or do you want to join for two - one 'generic' (allowing for Spanish and Russian together) and the other 'French' alone? (which would mean 1 hour a day of study)

Join me in the "generic" group! ;)
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languist
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Re: The 2019 365 Day Language Challenge

Postby languist » Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:19 am

PeterMollenburg wrote:Do you want to do just 'generic' or do you want to join for two - one 'generic' (allowing for Spanish and Russian together) and the other 'French' alone? (which would mean 1 hour a day of study)

IronMike wrote:Join me in the "generic" group! ;)


I think I'll just join for one, as "generic", as I guess the fundamental concept is to build a robust and consistent language habit - I think, for me personally, this option offers the right balance of freedom and pressure necessary in order to actually achieve this. :D
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Re: The 2019 365 Day Language Challenge

Postby PeterMollenburg » Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:25 am

PeterMollenburg wrote:
languist wrote:I was planning on doing this anyway, privately, so I’m very happy to join publicly. Hmm, I guess for this year I’ll have to commit to “generic” daily language learning, because I’ll be studying Spanish consistently until the summer, and then I’ll be in Russia, and will probably have to switch to consistent Russian study for the second half of the year. With French alongside both.


Do you want to do just 'generic' or do you want to join for two - one 'generic' (allowing for Spanish and Russian together) and the other 'French' alone? (which would mean 1 hour a day of study)


The above raises a potentially complicated issue. Should 'generic' be allowed in more than one block? In other words, should people be allowed to enter based on 2 x generic as they want to do an hour a day of study, across say six languages? For now, to make it simple I'm going to only allow one block of generic (i.e. 'generic' = 30 min of language study/day in whatever your chosen languages are). If this issue raises it's ugly head later on, we'll I cross that bridge when I come to it.

Also, should those who opt for 'generic' have to nominate their languages at the beginning? I'm kinda thinking no, as the idea for them is to do 30min/day of any language really, simply to create the habit. IT's not necessarily about progressing in one language, it's about the consistent effort. Any thoughts, anyone (on both these questions)?
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Re: The 2019 365 Day Language Challenge

Postby aravinda » Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:47 am

Thanks for the starting this challenge, Peter and CarlyD. I want to sign up for German but I’m signing up under Generic category because I might want to change the languages later. I’ll be starting on the 1st of January.

I’m undecided as to the usefulness of a “harsh” penalty because it can work either way. However, I have little faith in penalties as motivation unless they have “really serious” consequences (like lavengro giving himself a beating :P . Losing 20 days is nothing).
An alternative approach would be to make the daily requirement “too small to fail” as per MiniHabits . For example, we can have a ridiculousely small, minimum of 5 minutes a day, so you have no excuse not to do that minimum amount every day. Of course, you can/will do much more but as long as you get the 5 minutes done you are doing well.
I’m not suggesting any changes to the rules though, I’m okay with the challenge as it is.
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Re: The 2019 365 Day Language Challenge

Postby PeterMollenburg » Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:58 am

languist wrote:I think I'll just join for one, as "generic"


IronMike wrote:Join me in the "generic" group! ;)


I'm beginning to think that 'generic' is problematic. It creates flexibility that others don't have. I know this comes as an afterthought, given two people are already signed on for 'generic', but perhaps if you request such 'flexibility' it should come with some kind of 'loss' since those who sign on for say French, or German, must continue to do those languages throughout the year without fail. AI'm thinking along the lines of these such options (just brainstorming out loud here):

1. Nominate your languages in the 'generic' field up front - and you can't add to it later?

2. you can't win?

3. at the end of the challenge you must deduct a given % of your points?

4. Each lost day counts as however many languages you have in your routine?
Example you've got 6 languages in your 'generic' group - skip a day, you lose 42 days.
Example 2. You've got 2 languages in your generic group - skip a day you lose 14 days.

5 Each lost day counts as a flat even number that is more than if you choose one language. For example, skip a day you don't lose 7 days as would someone who'd chosen a single language, but a flat, even number yet to be decided, say 10 or 14 days no matter how many languages you study in your 'generic' block. I'm thinking 10 days loss - not too extreme, but a bit of a loss given your extra freedom.

Point 5 above, seems to be perhaps the fairest. You choose more flexibility, you lose something in return, but not too much.

IronMike and languist, i know this comes as an after-thought, but please understand, this extra flexibility should come at at least a small price, otherwise I can foresee every man and his dog jumping on board with 'generic' so as to study whatever they like when they like (I know you have a genuine reason for your choices of generic)
Last edited by PeterMollenburg on Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The 2019 365 Day Language Challenge

Postby PeterMollenburg » Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:00 am

aravinda wrote:Thanks for the starting this challenge, Peter and CarlyD. I want to sign up for German but I’m signing up under Generic category because I might want to change the languages later. I’ll be starting on the 1st of January.

I’m undecided as to the usefulness of a “harsh” penalty because it can work either way. However, I have little faith in penalties as motivation unless they have “really serious” consequences (like lavengro giving himself a beating :P . Losing 20 days is nothing).
An alternative approach would be to make the daily requirement “too small to fail” as per MiniHabits . For example, we can have a ridiculousely small, minimum of 5 minutes a day, so you have no excuse not to do that minimum amount every day. Of course, you can/will do much more but as long as you get the 5 minutes done you are doing well.
I’m not suggesting any changes to the rules though, I’m okay with the challenge as it is.


I will sign you up, but i'm afraid this 'generic' category could get out of hand (see my post above).
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aravinda
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Re: The 2019 365 Day Language Challenge

Postby aravinda » Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:05 am

PeterMollenburg wrote:I will sign you up, but i'm afraid this 'generic' category could get out of hand (see my post above).
No worries, sign me up for German then. ;)
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Re: The 2019 365 Day Language Challenge

Postby PeterMollenburg » Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:07 am

aravinda wrote:
PeterMollenburg wrote:I will sign you up, but i'm afraid this 'generic' category could get out of hand (see my post above).
No worries, sign me up for German then. ;)


I will put you down for German, but I must say, you can most definitely join for generic, but those who join generic, I think I'm going to have to impose some loss for the gain in flexibility. (see recent post above)
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Re: The 2019 365 Day Language Challenge

Postby languist » Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:07 am

PeterMollenburg wrote:
I will sign you up, but i'm afraid this 'generic' category could get out of hand (see my post above).


A compromise which comes to mind is to allow a category similar to the concept of a joint honours degree; commitment to a single challenge entry in which two languages carry equal weight, ie. "I'm doing French and Spanish" = 30 minutes of French, 30 minutes of Spanish, and "I'm doing French/Spanish" = 30 minutes of either French or Spanish. It allows a degree of flexibility but also a reasonable sense of restriction.

EDIT:
This could also allow people who have signed up with one language, but later want to continue their commitment to daily study, but realise they need to switch to another language, to add a language to that second slot, and continue. So, I could be doing Russian for 5 months but realise I need to daily Arabic, so my 'Russian' becomes 'Russian/Arabic', and as either counts towards the goal, it's okay if I drop one for the other. But I suppose it's just messy to be able to meddle with your entry any more than this. In any case, it's really about the participation!
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Re: The 2019 365 Day Language Challenge

Postby PeterMollenburg » Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:13 am

languist wrote:
PeterMollenburg wrote:
I will sign you up, but i'm afraid this 'generic' category could get out of hand (see my post above).


A compromise which comes to mind is to allow a category similar to the concept of a joint honours degree; commitment to a single challenge entry in which two languages carry equal weight, ie. "I'm doing French and Spanish" = 30 minutes of French, 30 minutes of Spanish, and "I'm doing French/Spanish" = 30 minutes of either French or Spanish. It allows a degree of flexibility but also a reasonable sense of restriction.


So you're suggesting their languages be nominated up front when the generic option is chosen? Should there therefore be a limit of 2 languages for a 'generic' category? And what's if a day is missed? The regular 7 days? or more? What about 10?

Damn, I didn't think something so tricky was going to come up :lol: I'm sure we'll work it out sooner or later.

EDIT:

languist wrote:
PeterMollenburg wrote:EDIT:
This could also allow people who have signed up with one language, but later want to continue their commitment to daily study, but realise they need to switch to another language, to add a language to that second slot, and continue. So, I could be doing Russian for 5 months but realise I need to daily Arabic, so my 'Russian' becomes 'Russian/Arabic', and as either counts towards the goal, it's okay if I drop one for the other. But I suppose it's just messy to be able to meddle with your entry any more than this. In any case, it's really about the participation!


I still think it's providing too much flexibility to those who choose 'generic'. Yes I have stated that it's all about consistent study every day, but there is something in (at least encouraging people in) nominating single languages. If they want extra freedom within a block of study, their should be a price to pay. It certainly is a great deal more freedom to freely be able to drop any given language and replace it with another. I think consistency within one language does matter. I think I'm going to have to be tough here and deal with the possible flow on effect. I know it's VERY unfair to change rules after people have signed on, but I just cannot see how it's fair allowing for a generic group in which languages can come and go as one pleases with no side effect to that while others (whether they want to or not) must continue with their nominated languages.
Last edited by PeterMollenburg on Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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