The Free and Legal Challenge- Discussion

Ongoing language-learning challenges, and team challenge logs (but not individual logs)
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iguanamon
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Re: The Free and Legal Challenge- Discussion

Postby iguanamon » Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:49 pm

rdearman wrote:I have another question. At the polyglot gathering i won a prize of seven topics on utalk for free. One of the languages they support is setswana my FLC language. Can I use this?

The FLC is about being able to learn a language for free. I designed it to show people that it's possible to do this without any special access to language learners who could lend you courses or materials (in this case, winning a prize at a polyglot contest), so, no, winning a prize of language-learning material or access to a service will not count unless it's available to everyone for free. This would be counter to the spirit of the FLC.
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Re: The Free and Legal Challenge- Discussion

Postby rdearman » Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:28 pm

iguanamon wrote:
rdearman wrote:I have another question. At the polyglot gathering i won a prize of seven topics on utalk for free. One of the languages they support is setswana my FLC language. Can I use this?

The FLC is about being able to learn a language for free. I designed it to show people that it's possible to do this without any special access to language learners who could lend you courses or materials (in this case, winning a prize at a polyglot contest), so, no, winning a prize of language-learning material or access to a service will not count unless it's available to everyone for free. This would be counter to the spirit of the FLC.

I figured as much, but "don't ask, don't get!" :lol:
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Re: The Free and Legal Challenge- Discussion

Postby kulaputra » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:00 am

I don't see why "The "No Way In Hades You Can Do This At All, Yes This Means YOU!, Free and Legal Challenge" should be categorically more difficult then the other challenges. It just seems like a matter of degree, not kind. Getting to C1 with only free and legal materials (assuming this includes a conversational partner) in major languages like Spanish, French, Italian, and even Russian doesn't seem that much harder then doing it the non-free way, given the plethora of resources online these days.

If you speak one Western Romance language at a B2+ level, I'm willing to bet you could get another Western Romance language to a B2+ level freely and legally in a year or less.
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Iha śāriputra: rūpaṃ śūnyatā śūnyataiva rūpaṃ; rūpān na pṛthak śūnyatā śunyatāyā na pṛthag rūpaṃ; yad rūpaṃ sā śūnyatā; ya śūnyatā tad rūpaṃ.

--Heart Sutra

Please correct any of my non-native languages, if needed!

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Re: The Free and Legal Challenge- Discussion

Postby iguanamon » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:29 am

kulaputra wrote:I don't see why "The "No Way In Hades You Can Do This At All, Yes This Means YOU!, Free and Legal Challenge" should be categorically more difficult then the other challenges. It just seems like a matter of degree, not kind. Getting to C1 with only free and legal materials (assuming this includes a conversational partner) in major languages like Spanish, French, Italian, and even Russian doesn't seem that much harder then doing it the non-free way, given the plethora of resources online these days. ...

This is tongue in cheek hyperbole because some folks here tend to get "irrationally exuberant" about language-learning challenges, especially in the beginning. While it indeed, can be done. I doubt if anyone will actually want to go this route.

Look at the Super Challenge. In big languages like FIGS and Russian, culture is an important part of the desire to learn these languages and books, series and films help a self-learner to advance. Not being able to read modern novels, watch television series and current films that would be paid would be an impediment. So, my contention is that no one will actually want to try to get to C1 without these resources. Of course, if a learner had access to a public library with a large selection of TL books, films and series, then it would be a lot easier. If a learner lived in a TL country or had access to TL television, even easier. Still, the artificial limitation of only free and legal resources is the challenge. My respect for anyone who manages to reach C1 with free and legal limitations would be tremendous!
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Re: Thoughts on a challenge/experiment- The Free and Legal Challenge

Postby rdearman » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:16 pm

Snow wrote:I'm in, if someone could help me with resources for Brazilian Portuguese.

I just posted a link in the resources page, but there are a ton of public domain textbooks for Portuguese.
A new practical and easy method of learning the Portuguese language (1869) by Lopes de Cabano
http://www.archive.org/details/anewprac ... 00cabagoog
[ADOPTED] A brief grammar of the Portuguese language with exercises and vocabularies (1910) by John C. Branner
http://www.archive.org/details/abriefgr ... 00unkngoog
A grammar of the Portuguese language (1876) by Alfred Elwes
http://www.archive.org/details/agrammar ... 00elwegoog
A new method for learning the Portuguese language (1906) by E.F. Grauert
http://www.archive.org/details/anewmeth ... 01graugoog
Portuguese conversation-grammar (1922) by Louise Ey
http://www.archive.org/details/portugue ... 00eylurich
Practical Grammar of the Portuguese Language (1908) by Charles Heron Wall
http://www.archive.org/details/practica ... 00wallgoog


The main link is: https://forum.librivox.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21482
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Re: The Free and Legal Challenge- Discussion

Postby rdearman » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:17 pm

Anyone looking for Free and Legal resources. I found a list of public domain text books for a TON of languages which I posted in resources, but thought I would repeat here:

https://forum.librivox.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21482
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Re: The Free and Legal Challenge- Discussion

Postby Elsa Maria » Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:15 pm

For me, one of the challenges of this challenge is resisting the desire to use things that I had already paid for before starting the FLC. I had bought some books in the Netherlands last year, and I still can't believe that I haven't opened them since starting the FLC! I have not really minded not buying more stuff.

Another tricky spot for me is app usage, but I am finding (to my surprise) that I do have the self-discipline for this, too. For example, I recently bought the polyglot version of the Drops app but I have limited my Dutch use of it for only 5 minutes per day - which is what you get with the free account. I am using the unlimited feature in Russian, though. Maybe once I stop the FLC challenge, I will switch to using Drops for Dutch in abundance and put Drops Russian on simmer.

Even though I doubt that I will get to the A2 level by the official end, I have greatly enjoyed it and benefited from it thus far.
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Re: The Free and Legal Challenge- Discussion

Postby iguanamon » Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:22 pm

Elsa Maria wrote:For me, one of the challenges of this challenge is resisting the desire to use things that I had already paid for before starting the FLC. I had bought some books in the Netherlands last year, and I still can't believe that I haven't opened them since starting the FLC! I have not really minded not buying more stuff. ...

I can imagine! Are you finding that you have enough available anyway?
Elsa Maria wrote:...Even though I doubt that I will get to the A2 level by the official end, I have greatly enjoyed it and benefited from it thus far.

Can you tell us what you enjoy about doing the challenge and how it has benefited you, so far?
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Re: The Free and Legal Challenge- Discussion

Postby Elsa Maria » Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:41 pm

iguanamon wrote:
Elsa Maria wrote:For me, one of the challenges of this challenge is resisting the desire to use things that I had already paid for before starting the FLC. I had bought some books in the Netherlands last year, and I still can't believe that I haven't opened them since starting the FLC! I have not really minded not buying more stuff. ...

I can imagine! Are you finding that you have enough available anyway?
Elsa Maria wrote:...Even though I doubt that I will get to the A2 level by the official end, I have greatly enjoyed it and benefited from it thus far.

Can you tell us what you enjoy about doing the challenge and how it has benefited you, so far?


My apologies for not replying sooner!
There is PLENTY available for Dutch. I am surprised how much I was able to find. I never would have looked so hard for free and legal resources if I wouldn't have decided to do the challenge. And it has been fun finding what I want. I'm not sure that I will stick it out for the whole nine months, though. I am going to take the free University of Groningen MOOC in August. If I like it, I will sign up for the next (paid) portion, and I think that would mean I did the challenge for six months.
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Re: The Free and Legal Challenge- Discussion

Postby Xenops » Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:52 am

Here's a question: is it okay to use Memrise when it follows a copy-righted book? As far as I can tell, it's just the vocabulary, which is not copy-righted, not the book lessons itself: but then, I'm not sure where the audio is from.

The description from the first one reads:
This course is designed to complement the book "Scottish Gaelic in 12 Weeks". The lessons from the book are divided into levels with around 30 vocabulary items. Due to the nature of the website, the explanations cannot be displayed here.


The "nature of the website" could mean he's concerned with copy-right, or simply that Memrise isn't formatted to explain grammar (as opposed to the Duolingo website).

https://www.memrise.com/course/133514/scottish-gaelic-in-12-weeks/
https://www.memrise.com/course/877122/scottish-gaelic-in-12-weeks-lesson-2-onwards/

A discussion on the Memrise forums (for Germany, not the U.S.):
https://community.memrise.com/t/legal-issues-copyrighted-material-germany/5791

I'm currently tempted by Scottish Gaelic, and it might be possible to do a library challenge with it.
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