SRS challenge rules and registration.

Ongoing language-learning challenges, and team challenge logs (but not individual logs)
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PeterMollenburg
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Re: SRS challenge rules and registration.

Postby PeterMollenburg » Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:15 am

sfuqua wrote:You review them twice the first day. Then they are active, and you have to keep reviewing them at increasing intervals to keep them up to date.


Thank you sfuqua, I will change my settings to reflect this from 3 times to 2 times review to make active. (see bold below in my spaced repetition settings). Okay and in order to keep them active...

I will show my settings below (which are all changeable) in case anyone can see any blaringly obvious strong differences with what people would be using with Anki or other programs in this challenge. If not, whatever. Here are my settings (not sure this will mean anything at all, but it just might):

Cards become new: "random"
Max new cards: "10"
New to active after: "2 correct"
Max cards in round: "20"

First interval after correct: "20" (hours)
First interval after strong correct: "3" (days)
Minimum interval: "8" (hours)
Target interval: "30" (days)
Max interval after wrong: "6" (days)

Wrong interval factor: 0.5
Correct interval factor: 1.4
Easy correct factor: 1.8
Strong interval factor: 2.2

Due cards priority: "oldest due"
late review adjustment: "yes"
postpone due until: "off"

Of course these setting may be self explanatory or they may appear alien if the terminology used is rather different. Any questions, shoot and I can provide more info. If you don't care, whatever, I'll leave settings as are (with the new to active changed to "2 correct")
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Re: SRS challenge rules and registration.

Postby Rotasu » Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:36 am

PeterMollenburg wrote:
sfuqua wrote:You review them twice the first day. Then they are active, and you have to keep reviewing them at increasing intervals to keep them up to date.


Thank you sfuqua, I will change my settings to reflect this from 3 times to 2 times review to make active. (see bold below in my spaced repetition settings). Okay and in order to keep them active...

I will show my settings below (which are all changeable) in case anyone can see any blaringly obvious strong differences with what people would be using with Anki or other programs in this challenge. If not, whatever. Here are my settings (not sure this will mean anything at all, but it just might):

Cards become new: "random"
Max new cards: "10"
New to active after: "2 correct"
Max cards in round: "20"

First interval after correct: "20" (hours)
First interval after strong correct: "3" (days)
Minimum interval: "8" (hours)
Target interval: "30" (days)
Max interval after wrong: "6" (days)

Wrong interval factor: 0.5
Correct interval factor: 1.4
Easy correct factor: 1.8
Strong interval factor: 2.2

Due cards priority: "oldest due"
late review adjustment: "yes"
postpone due until: "off"

Of course these setting may be self explanatory or they may appear alien if the terminology used is rather different. Any questions, shoot and I can provide more info. If you don't care, whatever, I'll leave settings as are (with the new to active changed to "2 correct")


Why do you feel the need to change your settings? If you learn/study by having to review 3 times before becoming active, why are you changing it to something you are not used to? You are using Flashcard Deluxe for a reason, most likely because it is different or better for you than Anki. I see no reason to change your settings to be like Anki just for a challenge where you do not even have to use Anki .-. You seem to focus more on journey than the end goal.

sfuqua wrote:you should do what you find most useful for your study.



Im using Memrise for this challenge and you have to review a word 6 times before becoming active.
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Re: SRS challenge rules and registration.

Postby Komma » Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:26 am

Just to be sure I understood correctly:
In anki cards can be suspended and unsuspended, right? So if a card is suspended for a short period, does unsuspending it letting it get in the counting again?

Also in the end we need 10000 active cards (as I understand it, active = card in review mode, so with standard settings if it has been answered correct twice the same day it is entering review mode) or 10000 mature cards (card in review mode with an interval of >21)?
Sorry if that has being asked before, but the rules and the anki terminology confused me a bit (rules say: "total of 10 000 cards in the review section of your deck (a total of 10 000 cards that are either "new and learning" or "mature"), however in anki cards that are new actually were never seen and those in learning are not in the anki review mode... (anki manual))
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Re: SRS challenge rules and registration.

Postby PeterMollenburg » Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:10 am

Rotasu wrote:
Why do you feel the need to change your settings? If you learn/study by having to review 3 times before becoming active, why are you changing it to something you are not used to?


I wanted to play fair. I don't know what to infer exactly from your query/rhetorical question in terms of 'tone', but given the context of the first response to my obvious question on the 10,000 card rule followed by a seemingly direct manner in your second reply, i'm falling into a default tone of bossiness and my feathers are now becoming a little rustled. If you are in fact being a little short with me, I ask you to take a step back. We're all different, I'm not you and I don't see the world the way you do (including flashcards and challenges). Just because one asks seemingly stupid questions does not mean they are stupid (although I could very well be- that's a matter of perception and perspective) and it does not mean that one ought to be treated with less respect, stupid or not. If i'm mistaken regarding your tone, then perhaps you could take a second to realise that given your first reply (to the obvious question) I'm now interpreting your second reply here as possibly condescending. I'm happy to be corrected, maybe I just got out of bed on the wrong side myself.

Rotasu wrote:You are using Flashcard Deluxe for a reason, most likely because it is different or better for you than Anki. I see no reason to change your settings to be like Anki just for a challenge where you do not even have to use Anki .-.


Again, for want of a level playing field. If i'm going to take part in a challenge, I want to be on a level playing field with others, that way when you reach the end goal you've reached it via the same constraints. I've never used Anki. I've often considered trying it, but can't be bothered messing about with it. In sharing my settings I was hoping for (i didn't directly ask I know- I didn't want to, I only wanted that information if someone was willing to of their own accord) that maybe someone would clarify the differences in the algorhythms used. If they didn't that's fine.

Edit:
sfuqua wrote:I'm going to speak of this as if you have to do the challenge with anki. You are welcome to use any other srs system. If you use something other than anki, figure out how to do something the equivalent.


I think one could interpret this as try to use your SRS system in a way that is similar to the way Anki would work. This is perhaps more reason why I chose to emulate the way Anki is set up. I don't want to use Anki, i'm used to FCD, but if I can get FCD to work fairly closely to they way Anki works then it's not only fair, follows what sfuqua has stated, and provides me with a challenge by mixing things up a little to do the challenge itslef.
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Re: SRS challenge rules and registration.

Postby PeterMollenburg » Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:16 am

I kinda want to post in the other thread as it seems there are more people involved in the discussion there, however i'll post here given the heading of this thread. I have read over the info and seen how the blanket rules are basically 10,000 cards, none requiring review. I think this poses a couple of problems, but i'm no mathematical genius so maybe i'm reading into this too much.

I previously posted this information from my SRS program below already, but realised I left out a critical piece of information which I have now highlighted in red & bold.

My SRS settings are below from Flashcards Deluxe (FCD) which are all changeable)

Cards become new: "random"
Max new cards: "10"
New to active after: "2 correct"
Max cards in round: "20"

First interval after correct: "20" (hours)
First interval after strong correct: "3" (days)
Minimum interval: "8" (hours)
Maximum interval: "365" (days)
Target interval: "30" (days)
Max interval after wrong: "6" (days)

Wrong interval factor: 0.5
Correct interval factor: 1.4
Easy correct factor: 1.8
Strong interval factor: 2.2

Due cards priority: "oldest due"
late review adjustment: "yes"
postpone due until: "off"

I've listed all my settings just out of interest in case anyone wants to comment on other aspects. My issue is with the bold/red area is this- Maximum interval for a card can be changed from anywhere between 7 and 730 days in FCD. Were I to change it to 730 days then my maximum interval for any given card will 730 days... obviously. This then means that depending on the SRS settings in other systems such as Memrise or Anki that I could be at a signficant advantage/disadvantage, right? (as could others).

I normally have this number for max. interval set to the default 365 (ie one year) and wouldn't change this necessarily for the challenge unless it was to be in line with other systems/users in the challenge. But let's say hypothetically that Anki's max interval is 200 days for any given card, this would mean Anki would require more reviews than FCD over the course of the challenge. 200 max interval means if you create a card on day 1, once it becomes "active" then you will see it three more times in the challenge period at a mininum. Using FCD settins at 730 days max interval I might not even see the card again as the max interval is more than the length of the challenge (bit over 600 days). I might indeed see it, yes, as it is the maximum interval, but it will affect the number of times I have to review cards in general. In fact, couldn't one enter this challenge late, import 10,000 cards lets say with 6 months to go in the challenge, adjust the max interval to the max setting and never have to review the cards.

So, is this sounding logical? I would like to clarify if it is known what the max (and for that matter minimum) intervals for other SRS systems are, otherwise this challenge seems far to ambiguous. I am certainly interested but further clarification is needed. I'd like to enter the challenge on equal terms.
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Re: SRS challenge rules and registration.

Postby Adrianslont » Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:57 am

PeterMollenburg wrote:I kinda want to post in the other thread as it seems there are more people involved in the discussion there, however i'll post here given the heading of this thread. I have read over the info and seen how the blanket rules are basically 10,000 cards, none requiring review. I think this poses a couple of problems, but i'm no mathematical genius so maybe i'm reading into this too much.

......................... This then means that depending on the SRS settings in other systems such as Memrise or Anki that I could be at a signficant advantage/disadvantage, right? (as could others).

I normally have this number for max. interval set to the default 365 (ie one year) and wouldn't change this necessarily for the challenge unless it was to be in line with other systems/users in the challenge. But let's say hypothetically that Anki's max interval is 200 days for any given card, this would mean Anki would require more reviews than FCD over the course of the challenge. 200 max interval means if you create a card on day 1, once it becomes "active" then you will see it three more times in the challenge period at a mininum. Using FCD settins at 730 days max interval I might not even see the card again as the max interval is more than the length of the challenge (bit over 600 days). I might indeed see it, yes, as it is the maximum interval, but it will affect the number of times I have to review cards in general. In fact, couldn't one enter this challenge late, import 10,000 cards lets say with 6 months to go in the challenge, adjust the max interval to the max setting and never have to review the cards.

So, is this sounding logical? I would like to clarify if it is known what the max (and for that matter minimum) intervals for other SRS systems are, otherwise this challenge seems far to ambiguous. I am certainly interested but further clarification is needed. I'd like to enter the challenge on equal terms.


Peter, I think you overthinking this. I don't think it's worth worrying that the algorithm of a particular app makes you do more reviews/work than the algorithm of a different app. And there are other variables that mean we will never all be on equal terms eg word cards versus sentence cards versus audio cards - word cards being quicker to make and review. Personally I'm not doing word cards because I don't enjoy them and feel I get more out of sentences with audio or MCD.

I guess a comparison could be made with reading challenges too - some books are clearly easier than others - but the point is to read heaps of books YOU enjoy.

I was feeling a little hung up on the rules at first, probably because it's my first challenge, but have decided it's a personal challenge for myself with added camaraderie and have stopped worrying. I'm looking forward to it. Well, let's see how it goes anyway!

BTW I had a look and ankis default max interval seems to be 365000!
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: 2779 / 10000 SRS 10k challenge
: 220 / 610 610 days

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PeterMollenburg
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Re: SRS challenge rules and registration.

Postby PeterMollenburg » Mon Apr 25, 2016 11:42 am

Adrianslont wrote:
PeterMollenburg wrote:I kinda want to post in the other thread as it seems there are more people involved in the discussion there, however i'll post here given the heading of this thread. I have read over the info and seen how the blanket rules are basically 10,000 cards, none requiring review. I think this poses a couple of problems, but i'm no mathematical genius so maybe i'm reading into this too much.

......................... This then means that depending on the SRS settings in other systems such as Memrise or Anki that I could be at a signficant advantage/disadvantage, right? (as could others).

I normally have this number for max. interval set to the default 365 (ie one year) and wouldn't change this necessarily for the challenge unless it was to be in line with other systems/users in the challenge. But let's say hypothetically that Anki's max interval is 200 days for any given card, this would mean Anki would require more reviews than FCD over the course of the challenge. 200 max interval means if you create a card on day 1, once it becomes "active" then you will see it three more times in the challenge period at a mininum. Using FCD settins at 730 days max interval I might not even see the card again as the max interval is more than the length of the challenge (bit over 600 days). I might indeed see it, yes, as it is the maximum interval, but it will affect the number of times I have to review cards in general. In fact, couldn't one enter this challenge late, import 10,000 cards lets say with 6 months to go in the challenge, adjust the max interval to the max setting and never have to review the cards.

So, is this sounding logical? I would like to clarify if it is known what the max (and for that matter minimum) intervals for other SRS systems are, otherwise this challenge seems far to ambiguous. I am certainly interested but further clarification is needed. I'd like to enter the challenge on equal terms.


Peter, I think you overthinking this. I don't think it's worth worrying that the algorithm of a particular app makes you do more reviews/work than the algorithm of a different app. And there are other variables that mean we will never all be on equal terms eg word cards versus sentence cards versus audio cards - word cards being quicker to make and review. Personally I'm not doing word cards because I don't enjoy them and feel I get more out of sentences with audio or MCD.

I guess a comparison could be made with reading challenges too - some books are clearly easier than others - but the point is to read heaps of books YOU enjoy.

I was feeling a little hung up on the rules at first, probably because it's my first challenge, but have decided it's a personal challenge for myself with added camaraderie and have stopped worrying. I'm looking forward to it. Well, let's see how it goes anyway!

BTW I had a look and ankis default max interval seems to be 365000!


Ok, tnx Adrianslont, sign me up then sfuqua! I think Rotasu was trying to tell me to chill as well. Instead I got offended.

PM, that's me
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Re: SRS challenge rules and registration.

Postby sfuqua » Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:54 pm

In some ways it would be easier if I were to make up a bunch of exact rules, but I certainly don't want to add any stress to anyone's life. The super challenge has some exclusions about watching and listening that annoy me, and I want to avoid starting any challenge that adds stress to anyone, except the nice stress of building skills. Inevitably, some people will work harder than others on the challenge. Passive direction vocabulary cards are so much easier than sentence or cloze cards, in general. But you may be at a place in your study where you *need* vocabulary cards more. You may need less review than the default settings on anki.
Do what you need. 10000 cards is a lot. If you have completed 10000 cards, you have done done a lot.

Maybe it's just me, but I can't believe that anyone would actually do something completely bogus in order to "win" a challenge.

On the last day of the challenge, somebody announces, "I put 10000 sentences in my anki deck, and I did browse->highlight all cards in a deck->reschedule the day after tomorrow. I have never looked at a card, but I have 10000 review cards, and none of them are due today. I win."
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I use my Tagalog every day.
I read and watch in Spanish and French whenever I can.
My Samoan rusts away in the depths of my mind.

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Re: SRS challenge rules and registration.

Postby PeterMollenburg » Mon Apr 25, 2016 9:00 pm

Ok, sounds good sfuqua,

Do i need to do anything specific to join (register via a bot for example), or just announce it as I already have? in which case, consider me 'in'.
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Re: SRS challenge rules and registration.

Postby Hanuman » Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:30 am

As i said in the other thread. Im in as well.

Will be doing Thai sentence cards (3500), Japanese sentence cards (5000) and Kanji RTK cards (1500+). Since all of these are adding existing decks I will have to make an update on my log on the starting date of how many cards I have already active so its easier to figure out how many cards I need to get the 10,000 as I go along.

Will be trying my best hopefully can keep up with the card creation because that has been my biggest obstacle to date. Not really starting off on a great foot by being on holiday for the first 2 weeks of the challenge!!

Also using Flashcards Deluxe, similar settings except I only use 1 review to make a card active.

Good luck everyone!
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