European Portuguese lesson books with audio?

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half entity
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Re: European Portuguese lesson books with audio?

Postby half entity » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:34 pm

Dtmont wrote:Adding on to my question. I do own the Brazilian Portuguese version of Assimil. Would going through this be useless if I am wanting to learn European Portuguese?


It won't be. It's both Portuguese and the differences are not that big. I focus a little more on European Portuguese too, simply because it's a lot easier to visit Portugal if you live in Germany. But once you step out of the artificial textbook world and start exploring native material you can't really ignore Brazil. At least I can't. It's too big, too important. Too much content, too much people. 99 percent of potential tandem partners are from Brazil. That being said, I'm not even sure I still focus on European Portuguese. I've decided about 10 times that I want to to use the European pronunciation but in reality I always adapt to the person I'm talking to.
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Speakeasy
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Re: European Portuguese lesson books with audio?

Postby Speakeasy » Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:03 am

Dtmont wrote: Do you have any experience with the newer linguaphone Portuguese course? Is it worth it?
Yes, I own a copy of the current generation of Linguaphone Portuguese (first published in 1987). It is a solid and, if I might say so, very demanding course. Please refer to my expanded comments under the “General Linguaphone Discussion” thread: https://forum.language-learners.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&p=129941&sid=5260737e901160e3e345aaf129dbf6a0#p129941

While you could purchase a new/refurbished physical copy of the course, or a digital edition, directly from Linguaphone, U.K., you might wish to keep an eye open for used copies on eBayUK. There is currently an offer for one at 59,95 GBP which is well below the publisher’s sale prices. Please note however that the description (cassettes) does not match the photos (cds), a matter which I suggest that you clarify with the seller before placing your order. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Linguaphone-Portuguese-Course-Audio-cassette-Learn-Language-Portugal-Folder/123564538069?hash=item1cc50538d5:g:X6gAAOSwDZ9bq2wn:rk:1:pf:1&frcectupt=true
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Peluche
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Re: European Portuguese lesson books with audio?

Postby Peluche » Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:14 am

Speakeasy wrote:
Dtmont wrote: Do you have any experience with the newer linguaphone Portuguese course? Is it worth it?
Yes, I own a copy of the current generation of Linguaphone Portuguese (first published in 1987). It is a solid and, if I might say so, very demanding course. Please refer to my expanded comments under the “General Linguaphone Discussion” thread: https://forum.language-learners.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&p=129941&sid=5260737e901160e3e345aaf129dbf6a0#p129941

While you could purchase a new/refurbished physical copy of the course, or a digital edition, directly from Linguaphone, U.K., you might wish to keep an eye open for used copies on eBayUK. There is currently an offer for one at 59,95 GBP which is well below the publisher’s sale prices. Please note however that the description (cassettes) does not match the photos (cds), a matter which I suggest that you clarify with the seller before placing your order. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Linguaphone-Portuguese-Course-Audio-cassette-Learn-Language-Portugal-Folder/123564538069?hash=item1cc50538d5:g:X6gAAOSwDZ9bq2wn:rk:1:pf:1&frcectupt=true


I went through most of the Linguaphone PT course and I was not happy with it.
1. In the beginning lessons, the audio is just too fast for beginners. I had to supplement it with Hugo Portuguese (I managed to get a used copy of Hugo together with audio).
2. After the beginning lessons, it covers materials too fast without giving the readers enough practice. I would read many constructs but I would not assimilate them. A proper course, covering the same material would have 3x the number of pages.

I think I also put down my thoughts in my journal.
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Peluche
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Re: European Portuguese lesson books with audio?

Postby Peluche » Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:16 am

Anyone have experience with the Portuguese academy site?
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Speakeasy
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Re: European Portuguese lesson books with audio?

Postby Speakeasy » Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:19 am

Gemuse commenting on Linguaphone Portuguese (first published in 1987) wrote: I went through most of the Linguaphone PT course and I was not happy with it.
1. In the beginning lessons, the audio is just too fast for beginners. I had to supplement it with Hugo Portuguese (I managed to get a used copy of Hugo together with audio).
2. After the beginning lessons, it covers materials too fast without giving the readers enough practice. I would read many constructs but I would not assimilate them. A proper course, covering the same material would have 3x the number of pages…
Two quick comments:

As I remarked in my own review of the Linguaphone Portuguese, this course is very demanding. However, I was not referring to the cadence of speech. Rather, I found that the manner by which the authors chose to introduce the language was something of a departure from what seems to have become the standard in commercially-prepared language courses (dialogues, exercises, notes). While I cannot quite put my finger on it, the effect almost seems to be that of a “total immersion” course; that is, from the outset, the user really has to “think” in the language. While this means that progress through the lessons will be slower than with competing approaches (viz., Assimil, Cortina, Linguaphone from the 1920’s through the 1970’s), it should result in a higher level of integration of the materials or, so I assume.

Prior to tackling the Linguaphone Portuguese, I had studied Portuguese with a number of other courses. As a result, I was prepared for the cadence of speech. Nevertheless, there are two schools of thought on this aspect; that is, either introduce the spoken language: (1) at a speed that is laboriously slow (viz., Assimil) and, while it increases, it never achieves the conversational speed between native speakers, thereby causing problems of adaptation later, or (b) at a speed which closely resembles that of conversational speed between native speakers (viz., FSI Italian FAST, Linguaphone Portuguese) which risks terrorizing the students who may react by abandoning all efforts at learning the target language. Personally, I would favour an approach which gradually increase the cadence of speech throughout the course, with the dialogues of the final third of the course delivered at a speed resembling that of conversation between native speakers.

Although “double posting” is discouraged on the forum, given Gemuse’s strong reactions to the Linguaphone Portuguese course, I will be inserting a copy of this post into the “General Linguaphone Discussion” thread (Page 10: Linguaphone Portuguese).

EDITED:
Tinkering.
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Re: European Portuguese lesson books with audio?

Postby Peluche » Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:50 am

Speakeasy wrote:
As I remarked in my own review of the Linguaphone Portuguese, this course is very demanding. .

Demanding in what sense?

Speakeasy wrote: While I cannot quite put my finger on it, the effect almost seems to be that of a “total immersion” course; that is, from the outset, the user really has to “think” in the language. While this means that progress through the lessons will be slower than with competing approaches (viz., Assimil, Cortina, Linguaphone from the 1920’s through the 1970’s), it should result in a higher level of integration of the materials or, so I assume. .

The course starts off well enough, the dialogues and material in the first 15 or so lessons are good, and support what you said above.
After that - no. There is a deluge of new constructs, without enough practice exercises or dialogue. BTW I had studied German before, so I had had some language learning experience under my belt. AFAIR for the official A2 exam, the grammatical constructs are covered within the first 30 lessons (I think by lesson 30 I was hitting B1 constructs), and if you look at the text till that point, there just isnt enough. Not even close.

BTW, I was text mining when learning. I really liked the dialogues in https://www.lidel.pt/en/catalogue/europ ... ersitario/
Adult conversations, good vocabulary, good "sentences"/constructs. Much better dialogue quality than Linguaphone. I think the audio is freely available.



Speakeasy wrote: Personally, I would favour an approach which gradually increase the cadence of speech throughout the course, with the dialogues of the final third of the course delivered at a speed resembling that of conversation between native speakers. .


I share the same view.
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Speakeasy
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Re: European Portuguese lesson books with audio?

Postby Speakeasy » Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:20 am

Speakeasy wrote: As I remarked in my own review of the Linguaphone Portuguese, this course is very demanding.
Gemuse wrote: Demanding in what sense?
From the very first lesson, there was, for me, something very different about the presentation that sets the most recent editions of the Linguaphone Dutch and Portuguese courses apart from anything else that I have ever encountered. As I commented, I cannot quite put my finger on it, but it’s there and, for me, it felt like I was being dragged into a total immersion situation. The effect was so powerful that it caused me to view the “standard” approaches as too easy by comparison which might explain why so few students can actually interact with native speakers upon completion of the average CEFR B1 level course. Not particularly specific, I know, but that’s what I’ve got. Perhaps, were someone like Cainntear, Aokoye, Inguanamon, RandomReview, Elexi, or others to use these courses, we might get a better appreciation for the differences in approach and the effects they have on learning.
Gemuse wrote: … BTW, I was text mining when learning...
I shudder in revulsion at terms such as “data mining” and its variants! :shock:
Never mind, it’s a generational thing. :mrgreen:

EDITED:
Shuddering.
Shuddering with such violence that it caused me to make typographical errors.
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