Questions about several language courses

[Speakeasy]

… would Pimsleur meet my search for courses which are uniform (or reasonably close to) across most languages, even if its just at lower levels?

Yes, the Pimsleur courses have a very standard approach to teaching the FIGS, particularly at the lower levels.

[PeterMollenburg]

some time ago, Pimsleur only had 3 levels for most languages and "Pimsleur Plus" offered on some courses - now I see Pimsleur has 5 levels for some languages - are these additional levels worth investing in?

I personally don't think any course is worth the amount Pimsleur charges for their courses new. So in short, no, the extra levels are not worth the money they cost. However, I did use all 5 levels of Pimsleur French and found it to be a fantastic course for pronunciation practise on the go (i.e. commuting/ in the car). So while it's over-priced in my opinion, it is a really good foundation course for pronunciation (including the extra levels, yes), but it won't take you far. A course like Assimil for example will get you 100s of miles down the road further than Pimsleur. It depends on what you want out of a course, what you're willing to pay (or can you borrow them) and whether you would like to have a combination of approaches. I personally would recommend Pimsleur French to those who are just beginning in the language, with little background in language learning, have spare moments when they cannot engage with a book, want to really focus on good pronunciation, and don't mind spending the money. But it will NEVER get you very far. It's extremely slow to begin with, I mean extremely slow! But if you want to work your pronunciation and start off by breaking things down to syllables, then this is for you!

[Ug_Caveman]

I personally don't think any course is worth the amount Pimsleur charges for their courses new. So in short, no, the extra levels are not worth the money they cost. However, I did use all 5 levels of Pimsleur French and found it to be a fantastic course for pronunciation practise on the go (i.e. commuting/ in the car). So while it's over-priced in my opinion, it is a really good foundation course for pronunciation (including the extra levels, yes), but it won't take you far. A course like Assimil for example will get you 100s of miles down the road further than Pimsleur. It depends on what you want out of a course, what you're willing to pay (or can you borrow them) and whether you would like to have a combination of approaches. I personally would recommend Pimsleur French to those who are just beginning in the language, with little background in language learning, have spare moments when they cannot engage with a book, want to really focus on good pronunciation, and don't mind spending the money. But it will NEVER get you very far. It's extremely slow to begin with, I mean extremely slow! But if you want to work your pronunciation and start off by breaking things down to syllables, then this is for you!

I can acquire use of Pimsleur (1,2,3) from my library, and have already bought copies of Assimil New French with Ease and Spanish with Ease (I have copies of German and Italian too but right now those are not priority languages for me).

Would you say it's worth bothering to use the Pimsleur courses if I can already use the Assimil ones instead?

[Speakeasy]

You do not need to study Pimsleur before beginning an Assimil course, but that does not mean that you shouldn’t consider doing so. Yes, the Pimsleur method is slow, but so is language learning in general, particularly in the context of isolated independent study. I believe that there is much to be gained by completing Pimsleur I and II before progressing to courses wherein the materials are presented in a much more concentrated fashion such as Assimil, Linguaphone, FSI/DLI, and so forth. More specifically, it is an excellent means for developing an intuitive feel for the basic structure of a language and for acquiring a certain degree of automaticity in using these structures at the introductory level. You don’t need to begin with Pimsleur but, should you do so, you are unlikely to regret it. My only additional advice for these materials is that, whether using Pimsleur or Assimil, you keep a simple grammar at hand for consultation as needed.

EDITED:
Tinkering.

[David1917]

Anything like Pimsleur/Michel Thomas (which I much prefer of the two, though I understand you have access to Pimsleur) will be good to use in addition to Assimil. If you're taking the bus/biking/walking somewhere, pop em in the headphones. The best progress comes to me when something is reinforced by another method.

[Cavesa]

1) Are there any families of language courses which include Spanish, French and Italian (and potentially
Portuguese of either variety) that teach the languages in a uniform manner (IE: all vocabulary and
constructions from one language would also be taught the same for the other two, so you effectively learn like-for-like phrases in all languages)?

There are. Most series of bilingual courses include all three of these. But as was said, they are not exactly the same due to different authors and also the reality of each language. Yes, there are publishers of book based or internet resources trying to do exactly this (I think Rosetta Stone was criticised for this, but there are various examples) and it is usually not the best approach. Even these three similar languages are still different enough to require individual approach.

There are also significant differences in the quality of the courses for each language within one series. So, I would recommend always checking the reviews of the course you are considering (including the edition. Sometimes, the same publisher makes a whole new course with a new author and gives it the name of the original one).

However, even if you mix several series like Teach Yourself, Colloquial, and Hugo, you can expect very similar approach and methodology. And also very similar content. The content in different books for the same level has also been homogenised by the CEFR system introduction. So the differences between an A1 French and A1 Spanish coursebook are not likely to be much bigger than those between two A1 Spanish courses.

Should you feel the need to learn these languages more closely together, there are other kinds of resources you can supplement your learning with. For example the French publishers Besherelle and Nathan make excellent overviews of grammar and basic vocabulary. My Nathan Italian Vocabulary presents one column of the words in French and one in Italian, and adds notes on the different genders or other catches (aimed at a French native learning Italian). I have no doubts there are such bilingual sources meant for the Spanish and Italian natives too.

[PeterMollenburg]

I can acquire use of Pimsleur (1,2,3) from my library, and have already bought copies of Assimil New French with Ease and Spanish with Ease (I have copies of German and Italian too but right now those are not priority languages for me).

Would you say it's worth bothering to use the Pimsleur courses if I can already use the Assimil ones instead?

If I had my time over for beginning French I would still complete Pimsleur I through V. In fact, agree with everything Speakeasy had to say. Even the initial levels I and II would be a good couple of stepping stones on the way to Assimil and/or other bulkier/denser courses. If you have access to Pimsleur I through III, then I suggest you do those then go on to Assimil. The main thing though, is to start and then remain consistent. Were you to skip any course altogether and replace it with another quality course, it wouldn’t destroy your French, as long as you’re doing something.

[David1917]

Yes, there are publishers of book based or internet resources trying to do exactly this (I think Rosetta Stone was criticised for this, but there are various examples) and it is usually not the best approach. Even these three similar languages are still different enough to require individual approach.

A justified Rosetta Stone criticism was its insistence on forcing every language into an exact mold of which words/phrases/sequences you would see based on a teaching method for French or Spanish. Screens for teaching gender of adjectives were only equipped to deal with M/F, so languages with Neuter would just have that kind of floating in there. Same with verbs. There's a big screen in the first unit that's the culmination of present-tense conjugation with the verb "to have." This was funny enough in itself because of the irregularities in the Spanish verb tener (-go as well as e->ie stem), but in Russian you use a roundabout way and say "by me there is x object," and in Chinese you don't conjugate 有 at all!

The Berlitz Self-Teacher, Linguaphone, and Made Simple series did this approach much better. The one author seems to have wrote out a series of didactic dialogues for each lesson, then allowed each language to be molded to fit it. Check out these videos:

https://youtu.be/vpE-7j4htH4
Berlitz Review

https://youtu.be/gVMa2iFW7-Q
Made Simple Review

He reads the dialogues for the same (or close to it) lesson across each book, and you can hear that it's the "same" content, with appropriate modifications for a language. That way, one could either do side-by-side comparisons, or by having internalized the Spanish book, read through the Italian book knowing more or less what to expect and how to apply that to a new language.

[Ug_Caveman]

If I had my time over for beginning French I would still complete Pimsleur I through V. In fact, agree with everything Speakeasy had to say. Even the initial levels I and II would be a good couple of stepping stones on the way to Assimil and/or other bulkier/denser courses. If you have access to Pimsleur I through III, then I suggest you do those then go on to Assimil. The main thing though, is to start and then remain consistent. Were you to skip any course altogether and replace it with another quality course, it wouldn’t destroy your French, as long as you’re doing something.

If I can get access to Pimsleur 4 and 5, should I keep going with those too - potentially using them the same time as Assimil? Also, is Pimsleur Plus effectively the same thing as Pimsleur 4?

Sorry for so many questions guys, I really hadn't kept up with all the new things that came out (just wish they'd do a 2 and 3 for Dutch )

[PeterMollenburg]

If I had my time over for beginning French I would still complete Pimsleur I through V. In fact, agree with everything Speakeasy had to say. Even the initial levels I and II would be a good couple of stepping stones on the way to Assimil and/or other bulkier/denser courses. If you have access to Pimsleur I through III, then I suggest you do those then go on to Assimil. The main thing though, is to start and then remain consistent. Were you to skip any course altogether and replace it with another quality course, it wouldn’t destroy your French, as long as you’re doing something.

If I can get access to Pimsleur 4 and 5, should I keep going with those too - potentially using them the same time as Assimil? Also, is Pimsleur Plus effectively the same thing as Pimsleur 4?

Sorry for so many questions guys, I really hadn't kept up with all the new things that came out (just wish they'd do a 2 and 3 for Dutch )

If you can get access to them and you find you want more and are motivated to continue then yes, do Pimsleur 4 and 5. If you’re bored or don’t feel like you’re gaining much, move on. Whatever pleases you, really. It doesn’t matter which (quality) resource you’re using, as long as you’re consistent.

I did Dutch Pimsleur and Michel Thomas as well, and it might be nice if there were more levels of both, but mountains of language learners here and elsewhere have successfully learned languages without ever using Pimsleur, so don’t worry. Just start learning daily and keep learning!