Questions about several language courses

[Ug_Caveman]

Hi all,

I’ve taken a break from language learning for a few years and am now in a situation where I’m ready to start
again, and am currently working my way through Assimil Dutch. I would also like to start myself back on the path I began at school studying French and Spanish once I'm comfortable with the level of Dutch I attain, and after considerably more Dutch study will begin to slowly introduce German. However before I start I need to work out a few things with regards to choosing/using programs, and was wondering if anyone here could help me answer these queries? I’ve searched around the forum a bit but not found the exact information that I was seeking:

1) Are there any families of language courses which include Spanish, French and Italian (and potentially
Portuguese of either variety) that teach the languages in a uniform manner (IE: all vocabulary and
constructions from one language would also be taught the same for the other two, so you effectively learn like-for-like phrases in all languages)?

2) What is the intended way to use a reading like “Spanish for Reading” by Sandberg? If there is no "intended" way, are there any ways that fellow language learners have found work for them?

3) As I understand it - Pimsleur begins all its languages courses using formal pronouns; I was curious as to whether it introduces informal pronouns in any of its courses? In particular French and Spanish (and Italian).

4) Is Linguaphone used in a similar way to Assimil? I’m intending to buy Linguaphone Dutch soon but can’t
find anywhere which lists instructions for use of the course or examples of people using it.

Many thanks in advance for any help and if I've managed to put this in the wrong place please do move it.

[Xenops]

1) Are there any families of language courses which include Spanish, French and Italian (and potentially
Portuguese of either variety) that teach the languages in a uniform manner (IE: all vocabulary and
constructions from one language would also be taught the same for the other two, so you effectively learn like-for-like phrases in all languages)?

I would Google the FSI and/or DLI courses. They might mirror each other. They are also free.

3) As I understand it - Pimsleur begins all its languages courses using formal pronouns; I was curious as to whether it introduces informal pronouns in any of its courses? In particular French and Spanish (and Italian).

LA Spanish introduces the “tu” form in the second level. I haven’t gotten far enough in the French and Italian levels to know.

4) Is Linguaphone used in a similar way to Assimil? I’m intending to buy Linguaphone Dutch soon but can’t
find anywhere which lists instructions for use of the course or examples of people using it.

That is my understanding, but Speakeasy or someone could give you more info.

[Speakeasy]

Welcome Back, Ug!
Hello, Ug. I happened upon your post on the HTLAL early this evening and was about to suggest that you register on the LLORG but, rather obviously, you found your own way over here. So then, welcome back! I found your shopping list of questions quite interesting. Very briefly then …

Families of Language Courses
There are several series of language courses, for use in a self-instruction setting, which adopt a uniform approach to introducing foreign languages. In the more conventional book + audio format, Assimil, Cortina, Living Language, Linguaphone, and the FSI/DLI basic courses come quickly to mind. However, while the approach is consistent within these series, the materials themselves are highly dependent on the choices made by the individual authors of the courses. Thus, these publishers’ courses do not offer a truly “standardized” method of presenting a language. That is, while the same grammatical features are introduced, and while there is a high degree of commonality in the vocabulary items, these elements are often sequenced in an entirely independent fashion, one course from the other. Thus, you would not be able to compare, say, the dialogues of these series for the French, German, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, or whatever courses.

Spanish for Reading, by Sandberg
I have not used this course book. However, from a reading of the Amazon Customer Reviews, and from the description of the book on the Amazon.COM website, this is not what I would call a Graded Reader. Rather, it is an introduction to written Spanish which focuses on the similarities and differences between English grammar and vocabulary and that of Spanish, accompanied by a short extract of current Spanish literature. While most of the reviews are quite positive, I suggest that you read closely the 3-star, 2-star, and 1-star reviews. How would I use such a course? I would begin by the Preface, the Introduction, and then I would proceed from Lesson 1 through to the end.

Pimsleur – Formal and Informal Pronouns, Verb Conjugations
If I recall correctly, of all of the Pimsleur courses that I have completed (please refer to my list of languages), the formal register is used through the first two levels after which the Informal pronouns and verb conjugations begin to appear either near the end of the second level or somewhere within the third level. However, over the long haul, Pimsleur tends to emphasize the formal register.

Linguaphone Dutch
How to use Linguaphone Dutch? The latest “generation” of the Linguaphone Dutch, when compared to the previous editions, benefited from a complete revision to the texts, the audio recordings, and the general approach to teaching. Whereas the Assimil method is very consistent across the entire series (a series of short dialogues, accompanied by translations, plus some rather opaque notes to the student), the Linguaphone Dutch course introduces the language through a smaller number of longer dialogues which are accompanied by exercise sets. The Handbook for this course is freshingly more easily understandable than the average fare for this publisher. The course also includes a set of supplementary exercises. While the Handbook includes a highly summarized table of the major aspects of Dutch grammar, I would recommend that you purchase a small “simplified” grammar to accompany either this course or the Assimil course. In my opinion, the Linguaphone course is more demanding, right from the get-go, than the Assimil course. I suggest that you prepare yourself by completing either (but not both of) Pimsleur Dutch or Michel Thomas Dutch. How would I study either course? Without wishing to seem flippant, begin with lesson one, drive yourself to distraction studying it, and then move on to the next lesson. Repeat the cycle.

Welcome back, Ug!

PS to Xenops: It would probably be better for me to “lie low” for a bit. I’ve been developing a well-deserved reputation lately for posting a lot, but saying nothing.

[David1917]

Made Simple (Euguene Jackson + Native of the target lang)
Berlitz Self-Teacher
Linguaphone 1970's (the only of these with audio)

All mirror each other in presentation, all found cheaply on Amazon/through libraries.

I think Cortina might mirror a good bit between French and Spanish (& thus probably Italian) in the dialogues, except the last four lessons are long cultural expositions (really great stuff either way, and they're available free online with audio). The German dialogues are different than these two. The Portuguese course I understand does not have the long cultural lessons nor a continuous dialogue and instead just uses mostly pattern drills through all 20 lessons.

[smallwhite]

> 1) Are there any families of language courses...


Berlitz
Essential French/Spanish/Italian
Confident French/Spanish/Italian
(same book+CD course with different titles)
have very, very similar lesson-opening dialogues but I don’t remember about the rest of the course.


50 languages website and app
is designed to be identical across all the languages it offers.


Many vocabulary apps look identical to me across languages.


ielanguages.com
https://ielanguages.com/languages.html
has "Romance Vocabulary Lists" and whatnot.


projetbabel.org
http://projetbabel.org/forum/babel/inde ... ge=accueil
also has comparative vocabulary.

[neumanc]

1) Are there any families of language courses which include Spanish, French and Italian (and potentially
Portuguese of either variety) that teach the languages in a uniform manner (IE: all vocabulary and constructions from one language would also be taught the same for the other two, so you effectively learn like-for-like phrases in all languages)?

There are different lines of courses that resemble each other very much in their approach and the vocabulary and construtions being taught. To me, the different generations of the Living Languages courses come to mind with the oldest courses (Living Language Conversational Spanish, French, Italien) resembling each other the most. However, if you want courses that are practically identical in their teaching content, there are only two lines of courses I could think of: the old Linguaphone courses from the 1950s and 60s and the Birkenbihl/Linguajet courses. Both use (nearly) the same stories and sentences for all of their languages. However, the former ones are a bit short (but still quite thorough) and out of print (although I heard that Linguaphone began selling them again in digital format as PDFs/MP3s), and the latter are too short and too expensive in my eyes and, most importantly, give no grammatical explanations whatsoever (https://www.linguajet.de/collections/english-mother-tongue).

[iguanamon]

...1) Are there any families of language courses which include Spanish, French and Italian (and potentially Portuguese of either variety) that teach the languages in a uniform manner (IE: all vocabulary and constructions from one language would also be taught the same for the other two, so you effectively learn like-for-like phrases in all languages)?

The "Berlitz Self-Teacher" Courses cover all these languages plus German and have similar dialogs and approaches. The only problem is that these courses have no audio. Not a problem if you are also using Pimsleur simultaneously. The books have a dialog in TL with a phonetic version (for English-speakers) underneath for pronunciation and below that an English translation. They have the advantage of being fairly cheap to buy used.

The fact that these courses come from the 1950's isn't such a big deal in learning the basics of a language as long as a learner gets exposure to many different sources. See my signature link.

Another member of the Berlitz family, Charles Berlitz, updated the books with the "Step by Step" series. They are also low priced and broadly available used. These, too, lack audio but have the phonetic transcription and the dialogs are basically the same and teach grammar similarly. I, myself, used "Spanish Step by Step" back before the internet and benefited greatly from it.

The Assimil courses all have different authors, so the courses don't fulfill your requirements in this aspect like the Berlitz courses, especially the Step by Step series, do, but they are good and useful courses for beginners with audio. After completing the Assimil Dutch course, you may find that you like the approach and continue on with them in other languages.

[Longinus]

I used Sandberg's German for Reading course many years ago and thought it excellent. It's set up as one of those programmed textbooks from the 1970s. Essentially, you are presented with German sentences or paragraphs and you try to puzzle out the meaning. Then, you get an English translation and some grammar explanations. I imagine the Spanish book is the same. There's also a French one. When I got done with it, I was able to read native German texts with only some light dictionary assistance.

[jeff_lindqvist]

(...)in the 1950's and 60's, Linguaphone was a would-be polyglot's dream, for the structure of ever single course was the same, i.e., the content of, e.g., lesson 13 was the same in Greek, Icelandic, Japanese, Finnish, etc., so that the study of any one method greatly facilitated the study of any other.

Assimil (HTLAL)

[Ug_Caveman]

Oh wow, thanks for the responses guys, I wasn't expecting so many

Another thing that I've just thought to ask about - when I put my language learning on hiatus some time ago, Pimsleur only had 3 levels for most languages and "Pimsleur Plus" offered on some courses - now I see Pimsleur has 5 levels for some languages - are these additional levels worth investing in?

Also, would Pimsleur meet my search for courses which are uniform (or reasonably close to) across most languages, even if its just at lower levels?

Thank you all so much for your help