Ideas for far-out (niche) language resources?

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Querneus
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Ideas for far-out (niche) language resources?

Postby Querneus » Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:23 am

For a short while I've been interested in making odd, unconventional resources for Spanish, ideally stuff that real publishers would be unwilling to put out in the market. My plan would be to put such resources online for free (as in CC-BY-SA free), and publish their development as I go (everything would go on Gitlab, YouTube, Soundcloud as a downloadable, and the like). The technical side of things isn't a problem, but it's true I have no artistic skills if illustrations are needed...

A few ideas I've had:
- Relatively short YouTube videos (5~10 minutes?) about Spanish grammar, especially the more uncommon or advanced stuff, e.g. the fact we say yo soy el que te defend but nosotros somos los que te defendimos, or the use of le with a following plural indirect object in many dialects, or how the various common uses of the English passive voice are rendered in normal Spanish (since in Spanish the passive voice is not used as much). The advantage of using video would be the possibility of showing the example sentences with a word-for-word translation below, as well as providing Spanish subtitles for my oral presentation of the topic which would be in Spanish as well.

- Short YouTube videos analyzing tiny bits of real Spanish, like the two-hundred-odd such videos that YouTube user Xue Bai made for Mandarin. By "tiny bits" I mean clips taken from Spanish series, Latin American telenovelas or dubbed American/Japanese shows, besides the occasional meme image or book/newspaper snippet. There's plenty of funny or interesting clips on YouTube already chosen by others. Unlike Xue Bai, I'd just use Spanish to explain and comment on the clip though, adding Spanish subtitles. Out of these four ideas this would be the easiest to produce for me, but the downside is that it could not be released under a truly free licence.

- A Spanish course for people who know Latin, although with English as a base. Comparisons between the languages would be made throughout, and etymologies would be given for every Spanish word introduced. I am aware I am likely severely underestimating the effort needed to make the textbook of a course though, especially from the ground up, not to mention the hours spent making and re-making the audio...

- A Spanish course with a theme, using uncommon vocabulary from the get-go for shits and giggles. I remember years ago someone from one of these language forums told me that back in high school she had used a Spanish course with a vampire theme, following the adventures of a few characters with those blood-sucking creatures. This meant that words like la sangre 'blood', el sarcófago 'sarcophagus', el colmillo 'fang', morder muerdo 'to bite' and el/la víctima 'victim' were among the basic words taught in the first couple units. Well, clearly a publisher somewhere thought this was worth trying to sell, but it sounds like it could be fun to make to some extent, like the Latin one.

Any opinions on these ideas? Any other ideas?

I do know there's plenty of resources for the Spanish language already, but perhaps I could contribute with something rather niche.

Feel free to use this thread to make wishlists for unconventional resources for languages other than Spanish too.
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Re: Ideas for far-out (niche) language resources?

Postby Cavesa » Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:41 pm

Ser wrote:For a short while I've been interested in making odd, unconventional resources for Spanish, ideally stuff that real publishers would be unwilling to put out in the market. My plan would be to put such resources online for free (as in CC-BY-SA free), and publish their development as I go (everything would go on Gitlab, YouTube, Soundcloud as a downloadable, and the like). The technical side of things isn't a problem, but it's true I have no artistic skills if illustrations are needed...

This actually sounds like a good idea. Too many resources are just the same thing with a bit different design. An app in different colours, beginner youtube videos with just a different face talking there, a new conjugation website with a bit different font. But there are still areas uncovered and waiting for creative people!


A few ideas I've had:
- Relatively short YouTube videos (5~10 minutes?) about Spanish grammar, especially the more uncommon or advanced stuff, e.g. the fact we say yo soy el que te defend but nosotros somos los que te defendimos, or the use of le with a following plural indirect object in many dialects, or how the various common uses of the English passive voice are rendered in normal Spanish (since in Spanish the passive voice is not used as much). The advantage of using video would be the possibility of showing the example sentences with a word-for-word translation below, as well as providing Spanish subtitles for my oral presentation of the topic which would be in Spanish as well.

This is one of the things people have been trying to do and filling youtube with. But perhaps you would find a better angle to look at things and make the videos fascinating and useful. But it might be harder to find the pleasure of making something really original and making it popular among the people looking for something new, as the sheer amount of youtube learning videos (usually of not that great quality) has been numbing our interest, I'm afraid.


- Short YouTube videos analyzing tiny bits of real Spanish, like the two-hundred-odd such videos that YouTube user Xue Bai made for Mandarin. By "tiny bits" I mean clips taken from Spanish series, Latin American telenovelas or dubbed American/Japanese shows, besides the occasional meme image or book/newspaper snippet. There's plenty of funny or interesting clips on YouTube already chosen by others. Unlike Xue Bai, I'd just use Spanish to explain and comment on the clip though, adding Spanish subtitles. Out of these four ideas this would be the easiest to produce for me, but the downside is that it could not be released under a truly free licence.
You mean https://www.fluentu.com ? It is a paid site but that's probably partially because of the copyright. But there may be place for a cheaper or free service like this, especially if you were also different in the chosen content.


- A Spanish course for people who know Latin, although with English as a base. Comparisons between the languages would be made throughout, and etymologies would be given for every Spanish word introduced. I am aware I am likely severely underestimating the effort needed to make the textbook of a course though, especially from the ground up, not to mention the hours spent making and re-making the audio...

That would be great! I've dreamt of romance language coursebooks assuming you already knew one or two romance languages (a kind of a book saying "you might remember this from Italian" and "careful, this works differently from French"). But Latin would be a logical choice and work for a lot of people. It is still taught in high schools (and universities)and using it for this might be yet another benefit for the Latin learners who have chosen such a difficult subject. But of course this would be a large and time consuming project.


- A Spanish course with a theme, using uncommon vocabulary from the get-go for shits and giggles. I remember years ago someone from one of these language forums told me that back in high school she had used a Spanish course with a vampire theme, following the adventures of a few characters with those blood-sucking creatures. This meant that words like la sangre 'blood', el sarcófago 'sarcophagus', el colmillo 'fang', morder muerdo 'to bite' and el/la víctima 'victim' were among the basic words taught in the first couple units. Well, clearly a publisher somewhere thought this was worth trying to sell, but it sounds like it could be fun to make to some extent, like the Latin one.

Another awesome idea! I am so bored with the eternal boring repetitive stories of exchange students and I am actually the ideal target public, what must the more different people feel! Also starting with something else than the usual vocab would be refreshing (and not harmful at all for learners thinking of the long term results). A crime story might be ideal or anything else could work (fantasy, scifi, anything!). When I was thinking about this (but knowing I could never get the time and skills to make such a course), I was imagining a crime story. You know, getting to know some interesting characters for descriptions, searching every room of the house for the murder weapon, asking people about their alibi as a way to learn the past tenses, the criminal's plans of escape for the future expressing, action scenes for the imperative, people discussing the murder for conditionals and so on. But that was just the way I was thinking. And daydreaming.
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Re: Ideas for far-out (niche) language resources?

Postby Querneus » Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:32 pm

Hmm, so you think there would be much more interest in the courses than the videos? I was a bit more interested in making the videos than the courses, mostly because they need less work to get something accomplished, but you're making me reconsider this.
Cavesa wrote:This is one of the things people have been trying to do and filling youtube with. But perhaps you would find a better angle to look at things and make the videos fascinating and useful. But it might be harder to find the pleasure of making something really original and making it popular among the people looking for something new, as the sheer amount of youtube learning videos (usually of not that great quality) has been numbing our interest, I'm afraid.

The thing is, if you search for "intermediate Spanish grammar" or "advanced Spanish grammar", you mostly just find discussions about the subjunctive. Okay, there's a video there about por vs. para, a couple on relative clauses, a couple videos on impersonal se, another on how to translate "to become", a few about gustar, one about Spaniard leísmo for direct objects (not even the only kind of leísmo either), plus a series on the main tenses, and that's basically it. I don't mind if they never get popular, but what I was thinking is I could provide videos on topics that are not discussed... I'm not sure what would be a better angle though, maybe I could make all the example sentences thematic? Like, a video where all the example sentences have to do with ghosts and scaring people, another with musical instruments, etc.

You mean https://www.fluentu.com ? It is a paid site but that's probably partially because of the copyright. But there may be place for a cheaper or free service like this, especially if you were also different in the chosen content.

I didn't know about fluentu. It sounds like a great resource for sure. So, what I was thinking was that if other people can get away with uploading those clips to YouTube in the first place, maybe I could get away with making derivative works as long as 1) the clips are very short (and they will be) and 2) I make no money out of my YouTube presence.

However, it's true that if YouTube banned some or all my videos, algorithmically or not, reasonably or not, there's no humans I could talk to for an appeal, which would mean wasted work from my part. I'm not sure if there's any real world Spanish video content that would be guaranteed not to give me trouble on YouTube, hmmm... Maybe I should give up on this idea of using clips that are restrictively copyrighted.
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Re: Ideas for far-out (niche) language resources?

Postby Brun Ugle » Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:43 pm

I agree that your course ideas sound great, but they would be a lot of work and probably take years to complete. But there’s no reason you can’t start by doing videos and still work on the course. I would love to see videos dealing with advanced topics. Most stuff that is called advanced online is about B1 level, maybe B2. If you could make some videos about topics on a C1-C2 level, I think you would find that you didn’t have a lot of competition. Of course, part of the reason for that is that most people don’t make it past B1 or B2, so the market isn’t so big.
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Re: Ideas for far-out (niche) language resources?

Postby rdearman » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:28 pm

Ser wrote:However, it's true that if YouTube banned some or all my videos, algorithmically or not, reasonably or not, there's no humans I could talk to for an appeal, which would mean wasted work from my part. I'm not sure if there's any real world Spanish video content that would be guaranteed not to give me trouble on YouTube, hmmm... Maybe I should give up on this idea of using clips that are restrictively copyrighted.

There is "fair usage" which you can read about in youtubes FAQs. https://support.google.com/youtube/answ ... 1?hl=en-GB

In particular, uses that do not comment on or criticise the content used (and that instead serve as a substitute for the original work) are unlikely to be considered fair uses.

You could argue that you're commenting on the content, and so you might get away with it. However, you could simply record yourself couldn't you? After all this is what Bai Xue has done. (BTW, thanks for that resource!).
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Re: Ideas for far-out (niche) language resources?

Postby Cavesa » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:02 pm

I didn't want to discourage you, sorry!

Advanced videos on other stuff than subjunctive would be actually great, you are right.

I was hoping rdearman would step in with his knowledge of stuff like this. Thanks rdearman!
Using short clips for the videos would be great. I would love to use such a resource myself. For example stuff like "a normal person would totally say that" and "don't ever use this or you'll sound foolish".

You are right that vocab videos could work too. There are lots of stuff the coursebooks don't present and we don't think of looking it up until we need it (and usually are in stress and hurry). Stuff for housework and small repairs, driving terminology, having clothes adapted and shoes repaired, and lots of other situations. There is a gap on the market as even the thematic dictionaries tend to put only some stuff on the pages, leave out verbs and phrases, and list a million sports instead of helping to ask for a locker, complain about a faul, or properly shout during a match :-D When it comes to the musical instruments, it would be great to not just get a list of those but again the stuff one could really need in real sentences. For example the musical terminology is not the same across languages (switching from the Czech, or rather German, C D E F etc to the French so le mi fa was not automatic :-D).

I would actually really love that, as I am thinking of it now. :-)

Both written and video stuff would be awesome, I like the way you think about this and I'm sure any result will bring something new!
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Re: Ideas for far-out (niche) language resources?

Postby Axon » Sat Jul 07, 2018 2:11 am

Analyzing rhetoric and organization. Advanced self-learners often have problems with explaining long and multi-part ideas. This is different than just complex sentences. You could, for example, record yourself telling a story about your friends in Spanish that requires you to say "My buddy Eduardo and I - he was really into model trains from a young age, he was always playing with them when he was a kid - took a train from Bilbao to Madrid and he could identify every single train we passed just from hearing the horn." Part of being an interesting conversation partner is knowing when to add unnecessary but ultimately helpful information to an anecdote so that the listener gets the full context of the story.

Very specific vocabulary. Go around your kitchen and explain the names and functions of all the cooking utensils from basic to obscure. Add additional information as it comes to mind. "This is a fork, we use it to eat solid food like rice and potatoes. This is a rolling pin, we use it to roll dough before it becomes bread or cake. This is a mortar and pestle. Not everybody has one, but some people like it for creating certain sauces or spices. You put the herbs in here and then sort of muddle them with the pestle."

Similarly, verbose walkthroughs. "There are a lot of books on my floor right now. These are mostly books about computer programming. I bought them for my college class. Now I'm going to organize them. I'm picking them up one by one and putting them into the bookshelf."

Commentary or descriptions of maps. "This is a map of an ordinary town in my home country. It takes about twenty minutes to bicycle from here to here. This is the main street, where you can find bakeries, liquor stores, and insurance agents."
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Re: Ideas for far-out (niche) language resources?

Postby reineke » Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:26 am

Dover dual language books lack audio.
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Re: Ideas for far-out (niche) language resources?

Postby Querneus » Sat Jul 07, 2018 5:05 am

reineke wrote:Dover dual language books lack audio.

Is there any particular one you'd like to have a recording done of? Since they publish Spanish classics, I searched for the audio of three of them and I was able to find it. Of course there might be a few words that are different because they're different editions of the text, but I'd say another recording of La Gitanilla or Rinconete y Cortadillo is probably not that necessary...
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Re: Ideas for far-out (niche) language resources?

Postby Cavesa » Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:29 pm

Axon wrote:Very specific vocabulary. Go around your kitchen and explain the names and functions of all the cooking utensils from basic to obscure. Add additional information as it comes to mind. "This is a fork, we use it to eat solid food like rice and potatoes. This is a rolling pin, we use it to roll dough before it becomes bread or cake. This is a mortar and pestle. Not everybody has one, but some people like it for creating certain sauces or spices. You put the herbs in here and then sort of muddle them with the pestle."

Similarly, verbose walkthroughs. "There are a lot of books on my floor right now. These are mostly books about computer programming. I bought them for my college class. Now I'm going to organize them. I'm picking them up one by one and putting them into the bookshelf."


Yes! This is what I was trying to describe but in a much worse way. We often even find a list of such vocabulary but usually just with bare nouns and the choice is not always representative to what do people really need. And this is getting even worse with the spreading popularity of frequency lists and their idealisation. I am sure a rolling pin or the combination to roll dough is not in the first few thousand words used in newspapers and books but it is a word every native knows and will use correctly.
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