The New French With Ease vs. El Nuevo Francés Sin Esfuerzo

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kulaputra
Orange Belt
Posts: 221
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:04 am
Languages: English (N), Kannada (semi-native, illiterate), Spanish (~C1), Hindi (A2 speech, B1 comprehension), French (A1 speech, A2 listening, >=B1 reading), Mandarin Chinese (~A1)
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The New French With Ease vs. El Nuevo Francés Sin Esfuerzo

Postby kulaputra » Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:31 pm

Has anyone compared or looked at both the Spanish and English versions of the Assimil French course? The Spanish one is older and has about 9 fewer lessons. My goal is to bootstrap French with Spanish by using Spanish language resources to learn French, but if the Spanish course is significantly inferior, I suppose I'll stick to the English. Does anyone know about how the two courses compare or have advice for me?
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Iha śāriputra: rūpaṃ śūnyatā śūnyataiva rūpaṃ; rūpān na pṛthak śūnyatā śunyatāyā na pṛthag rūpaṃ; yad rūpaṃ sā śūnyatā; ya śūnyatā tad rūpaṃ.

--Heart Sutra

Please correct any of my non-native languages, if needed!

Speakeasy
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Re: The New French With Ease vs. El Nuevo Francés Sin Esfuerzo

Postby Speakeasy » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:49 pm

Learning an L3 language from an L2 base
Your question has been asked, in many different forms, a number of times. While some members might encourage the learning of an L3 from one’s L2 in the early stages, generally speaking, most members seem to have arrived at the conclusion that one should possess at least an Upper Intermediate level (that is, at least CEFR B2) in one’s L2, before taking on such a challenge. Some members would go further by suggesting that, depending on the differences amongst the L1, L2, L3 languages, perhaps even a higher level would be required, such as CEFR C1.

You are most likely aware that, given the enormous influence that French had on the development of English, native speakers of the latter benefit from the existence of a large “vocabulary bonus” in all of the Romance languages. Given your evaluation of your abilities in French and Spanish, I would say that you should not encounter any significant problems were you to use Assimil’s “El Nuevo Francés Sin Esfuerzo” to advance your learning of French, a language to which you have already been exposed. There is one small matter that I would draw to your attention …

Assimil -- Explanatory Notes
As you are probably already aware, whenever Assimil publishes a “new generation” of one their courses, they publish either simultaneously or a short time thereafter, editions from different language bases. In all cases, the L3 texts and audio recordings are identical across the different editions. Although I have not reviewed the specific case that you are considering, I have used a number of this publisher’s courses from my strongest L2, French, and in several cases have compared the English-base variants. While, quite obviously, the L3 translations were different, what struck me the most was the difference in the accompanying notes wherein the translators often chose to emphasize points of grammar or colloquial usage that differed between the different editions.

In other words, were you to use Assimil’s “New French With Ease” you would find that the notes will have been written for the benefit of a native speaker of English whereas if you were to use Assimil’s “El Nuevo Francés Sin Esfuerzo”, you would find that the notes will have been written from the point of view of a native speaker of Iberian/Peninsular Spanish. These emphasizing/de-emphasizing differences are often minor and, given your level of Spanish, should not influence your progress in learning French. In any event, given the very nature of the Assimil notes, which I find unnecessarily opaque at times, I would always counsel one to accompany their courses with a simple grammar of the target language.

Assimil -- Translations
The matter of the translations in the various language-base variants is worth considering. It is highly likely that, were you to compare the two Assimil course books, you would encounter a number of cases where you would question the translator’s choices. As I have not reviewed the two courses that you are considering, I cannot offer any specific comments other than to say that I have always had the impression that Assimil strives to provide the highest quality materials and this includes their choice of authors, translators, and voice-trained professionals in the production of their courses.

Use Both!
You could always purchase the complete Assimil course from one L2 variant, plus the book only from the other L2 variant, and use them both. Whereas the additional cost would be marginal, doing so would offer you the opportunity of comparing the translations and notes of both variants and of advancing your understanding of both languages.
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kulaputra
Orange Belt
Posts: 221
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:04 am
Languages: English (N), Kannada (semi-native, illiterate), Spanish (~C1), Hindi (A2 speech, B1 comprehension), French (A1 speech, A2 listening, >=B1 reading), Mandarin Chinese (~A1)
x 331

Re: The New French With Ease vs. El Nuevo Francés Sin Esfuerzo

Postby kulaputra » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:53 pm

First, thank you very much for your reply! I'll respond below to some of the points that I felt need clarification:

Speakeasy wrote:Learning an L3 language from an L2 base
Your question has been asked, in many different forms, a number of times. While some members might encourage the learning of an L3 from one’s L2 in the early stages, generally speaking, most members seem to have arrived at the conclusion that one should possess at least an Upper Intermediate level (that is, at least CEFR B2) in one’s L2, before taking on such a challenge. Some members would go further by suggesting that, depending on the differences amongst the L1, L2, L3 languages, perhaps even a higher level would be required, such as CEFR C1.


I believe I have a CEFR B2+ in Spanish Production and a C1+ in comprehension, so I think I'm good. I've skimmed through Sin Esfuerzo and found the Spanish a breeze.

Speakeasy wrote:Assimil -- Explanatory Notes
As you are probably already aware, whenever Assimil publishes a “new generation” of one their courses, they publish either simultaneously or a short time thereafter, editions from different language bases. In all cases, the L3 texts and audio recordings are identical across the different editions. Although I have not reviewed the specific case that you are considering, I have used a number of this publisher’s courses from my strongest L2, French, and in several cases have compared the English-base variants. While, quite obviously, the L3 translations were different, what struck me the most was the difference in the accompanying notes wherein the translators often chose to emphasize points of grammar or colloquial usage that differed between the different editions.


I have both texts and the texts and audio recordings are not the same. I don't believe they are from the same generation as their publishing date is separate by more then a decade. But, confusingly, they have the same title format (The New X With Ease) which I thought remained constant through a single generation.

Speakeasy wrote:Use Both!
You could always purchase the complete Assimil course from one L2 variant, plus the book only from the other L2 variant, and use them both. Whereas the additional cost would be marginal, doing so would offer you the opportunity of comparing the translations and notes of both variants and of advancing your understanding of both languages.


I have the books and audio already. The issue is more about time and how to best spend it.
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Iha śāriputra: rūpaṃ śūnyatā śūnyataiva rūpaṃ; rūpān na pṛthak śūnyatā śunyatāyā na pṛthag rūpaṃ; yad rūpaṃ sā śūnyatā; ya śūnyatā tad rūpaṃ.

--Heart Sutra

Please correct any of my non-native languages, if needed!

Speakeasy
x 7658

Re: The New French With Ease vs. El Nuevo Francés Sin Esfuerzo

Postby Speakeasy » Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:41 am

kulaputra wrote: … I have the books and audio already. The issue is more about time and how to best spend it.
I’m sorry, I seem to have completely misunderstood your original question. Mea culpa! The matter of how best to use one’s time in independent language study involves numerous factors which only the individual can evaluate. While many Rules of Thumb exist, I won’t take the time to enumerate them here.

As you already have copies of both courses and as they differ from one another as to content, studying both of the simultaneously would give you double exposure to the basics of the French language which in turn would provide reinforcement and greater variety in the progressive dialogues, exercises, translations, and notes. However, doing so would require more time (your biggest investment in language learning) and, despite the benefits of reinforcement, this would delay your progress towards your ultimate goal of learning French … the “spinning your wheels” analogy applies here.

I have actually adopted this approach a couple of times with up to three different generations of the Assimil courses. While I do not regret having done so, I would have to admit that, at times, this double/triple exposure approach can be draining. As the dialogues and exercises are unique to the individual generations, I discovered that gaining the benefits of the reinforcement meant that I actually had to study the individual sets of materials. That is, in my experience, at the Beginner-through-Intermediate levels, there is “no free lunch” in language-learning.

Ultimately, you might be better off by simply separating your language-learning projects. That is, study French from an English base and maintain your Spanish in a separate, but parallel fashion, through whatever activities you deem most appropriate. Since your Spanish is already in the B2-C1 range, just how much reinforcement would you gain by studying French at the A2-B1 level?

EDITED:
Very curious typo!
Last edited by Speakeasy on Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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kulaputra
Orange Belt
Posts: 221
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:04 am
Languages: English (N), Kannada (semi-native, illiterate), Spanish (~C1), Hindi (A2 speech, B1 comprehension), French (A1 speech, A2 listening, >=B1 reading), Mandarin Chinese (~A1)
x 331

Re: The New French With Ease vs. El Nuevo Francés Sin Esfuerzo

Postby kulaputra » Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:00 am

I suppose my goal is more to maintain fluency in Spanish rather then improve it (I am working on improving it so as to get C2 certification, but the material in Sin Esfuerzo isn't i+1 so it won't help w/r/t). I suppose I'll start with both courses initially and as I progress I'll pick one over the other. Because they are similar (albeit not identical), the law of diminishing returns applies and my time will be better spent on some other learning strategy
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Iha śāriputra: rūpaṃ śūnyatā śūnyataiva rūpaṃ; rūpān na pṛthak śūnyatā śunyatāyā na pṛthag rūpaṃ; yad rūpaṃ sā śūnyatā; ya śūnyatā tad rūpaṃ.

--Heart Sutra

Please correct any of my non-native languages, if needed!


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