Question on Assimil Italian

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Seneca
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Question on Assimil Italian

Postby Seneca » Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:22 pm

Is the current Italian course from an English base simply Italian with Ease repackaged, or is it actually a substantively different course?

Image

versus

Image

I would guess it is new since the page for the audio on the Assimil site says "This set includes the recordings corresponding to the books L'ITALIEN, EL ITALIANO and L'ITALIEN for Russians." and it seems each of those are newer than Italian With Ease.

If that is correct, does anyone have any experience with the newest Italian version, or its French-based version L'Italien? It seems this newest edition of languages (simply the names of the language such as German or Spanish rather than X with Ease) seem fairly well-regarded. Curious to know if that continues for the Italian version as well.
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Re: Question on Assimil Italian

Postby Speakeasy » Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:05 am

Previous Discussion Threads
You might been interested by the previous discussion threads that deal specifically with Assimil Italian:

A Language Learner’s Forum
New Assimil Italian for English Speakers Release Soon?
http://forum.language-learners.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1529

Assimil Italian vs With Ease
http://forum.language-learners.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=3325

How-To-Learn-Any-Language Forum
Search Results
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/search_form.asp?cx=partner-pub-2912224114831178%3Ach0jagxs7xl&cof=FORID%3A9&ie=UTF-8&q=%22Assimil+Italian%22&sa=Search&siteurl=how-to-learn-any-language.com%2Fforum%2Fsearch_form.asp&ref=how-to-learn-any-language.com%2Fe%2Findex.html&ss=

Editions?
I have two editions of the of the Assimil Italian course. The information that I have provided below is drawn from my physical copies of the courses and what I have been able to glean from the Assimil and Amazon websites. Unfortunately, some of the information on Amazon.FR seems to be incorrect as to author, year of publication, and images, which does not help identify the different editions.

Current Edition: Italian / l’Italien
The first image that you posted above corresponds to what-I-understand-to-be the current edition of the course, published in 2012, authored by Anne-Marie Olivier, adapted for the use of English speakers by Erin Brady. As Assimil issues “new editions” of their courses along with new ISBN’s, it might be useful to identify this edition by listing the first few lessons by their titles:
01 Benvenuto in Italia!
02 Colazione al bar
03 In albergo
04 Treno o macchina?
Et cetera

Previous Edition: Italian With Ease / l’Italien sans peine
The second image that you posted corresponds to what-I-understand-to-be the current edition of the course, published in 1991 or earlier, authored by Giovanna Galdo and Ena Marchi, adapted for the use of English speakers by Adrien Hilal. Again, Assimil issues “new editions” of their courses along with new ISBN’s, it might be useful to identify this edition by listing the first few lessons by their titles:
01 Al telefono
02 Alla stazione
03 Chi sono?
04 L'arrivo a Milano
Et cetera

Previous Edition: Italian Without Toil / l’Italien sans peine
As far as I understand, the previous edition of the course was published circa 1957 under the name of A. Charel, the company’s founder. I do not have a copy of this edition.

Reviews on the HTLAL and Amazon
Generally speaking, reviews of all editions of the Assimil Italian courses have been very positive. While some reviewers pointed to the existence of typographical/spelling errors in the previous edition and the inclusion of some out-dated vocabulary, reviewers of the current edition seem quite pleased.

Mea culpa?
Should any of the information that I have provided concerning the editions prove to be erroneous, out-of-date, or otherwise misleading, please be assured that it was not intentional, I offer my apologies, and I invite one-and-all to post corrected information.
Last edited by Speakeasy on Sat Feb 11, 2017 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Question on Assimil Italian

Postby ilmari » Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:35 am

There are three generations of Assimil Italian (I am referring to the French editions).

1. L'Italien sans peine, by A. Chérel, 1957 (there may be an earlier edition, I'm not sure).
First lesson: Parla italiano?
Like all the old Assimil methods, it is thoroughly excellent and enjoyable, although obviously dated.

2. Le nouvel italien sans peine, by Giovanna Galdo and Ena Marchi, 1983.
First lesson: Al telefono
Also excellent, but quite demanding. The lessons start higher than at beginners' level. Good if you want to focus on grammar, which is presented in quite a systematic way. The main lesson is divided into two parts, separated by an extra line: dialogue, followed by grammar example sentences.

3. L'italien, by Anne-Marie Olivieri, 2004 (a new edition, with only a different layout, has been recently published).
First lesson: Benvenuto in Italia!
This is a standard 21st century Assimil. Shorter lessons and slower progression, with less vocabulary repetition. Easy at the beginning, difficult to stick with (at least for me).

Ideally, you could study the three books in parallel, or only 2 and 3. All depends on your needs and motivation.
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Re: Question on Assimil Italian

Postby Seneca » Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:18 pm

ilmari wrote:There are three generations of Assimil Italian (I am referring to the French editions).

1. L'Italien sans peine, by A. Chérel, 1957 (there may be an earlier edition, I'm not sure).
First lesson: Parla italiano?
Like all the old Assimil methods, it is thoroughly excellent and enjoyable, although obviously dated.

2. Le nouvel italien sans peine, by Giovanna Galdo and Ena Marchi, 1983.
First lesson: Al telefono
Also excellent, but quite demanding. The lessons start higher than at beginners' level. Good if you want to focus on grammar, which is presented in quite a systematic way. The main lesson is divided into two parts, separated by an extra line: dialogue, followed by grammar example sentences.

3. L'italien, by Anne-Marie Olivieri, 2004 (a new edition, with only a different layout, has been recently published).
First lesson: Benvenuto in Italia!
This is a standard 21st century Assimil. Shorter lessons and slower progression, with less vocabulary repetition. Easy at the beginning, difficult to stick with (at least for me).


Ideally, you could study the three books in parallel, or only 2 and 3. All depends on your needs and motivation.

I have the English base version of this, and had been tempted to ask why it was difficult to stick with. Being about 1/3 of the way in now, I think I know....it is godawful boring. No humor or interesting dialogues. I stick with it only because it would be discouraging to start something else at this juncture, but geez.

Pro: Full translation in both languages along with audio for all solely in Italian. This is a big plus, but I'd say it is the only one.

Con: Boring. You won't be excited for studying with it each day. Your motivation to learn better be high to outweigh the general malaise this will make you feel in your heart. Also, while the grammar explained is not wrong, per se, it simply isn't thorough enough to tell you what you need. So not really an all-in-one package.

Buyer beware to future Italian students, I think Italian With Ease may be worth it more, even with outdated currency and technology reference. I have no idea how much Italian has changed since Without Toil, but it may be worth a look before this current version as well. It is a shame. A great method seemingly ruined by trying to fit it into the CEFR guidelines. Dumbed down and boring.

Unfortunately, it is too useful to leave behind, I think :(
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Re: Question on Assimil Italian

Postby iguanamon » Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:16 pm

Seneca wrote:...Con: Boring. You won't be excited for studying with it each day. Your motivation to learn better be high to outweigh the general malaise this will make you feel in your heart. Also, while the grammar explained is not wrong, per se, it simply isn't thorough enough to tell you what you need. So not really an all-in-one package.
Buyer beware to future Italian students, I think Italian With Ease may be worth it more, even with outdated currency and technology reference. I have no idea how much Italian has changed since Without Toil, but it may be worth a look before this current version as well. It is a shame. A great method seemingly ruined by trying to fit it into the CEFR guidelines. Dumbed down and boring.
Unfortunately, it is too useful to leave behind, I think :(

There are other courses besides Assimil. Just because most everyone here thinks it's the greatest thing since sliced bread doesn't mean it's right for you. I've done two DLI courses and you would say worse about them if you did them. Assimil is light on grammar. For many people this is a huge plus. Personally, I don't like the unnaturally slow audio of the course.

I will say this, that no course is perfect. All have faults. Most courses are "boring". Repetition is an important aspect of learning a language and repetition, by its very nature, is not exciting. It's hard to make a course exciting when it is trying to teach a language from scratch. Most course authors don't even try. So, I'll give Assimil some credit for at least trying.

So, given that "boring" is the norm for the vast majority of courses, how do you get past that? You are right. Your motivation to learn has to come from within yourself. You can't depend on a course to give you that motivation. Ultimately, the difference here between the people who are successful at learning a language to a high level and those who fail is the ability to stick with a process even if it has some "boring" aspects to it.

I wouldn't like doing SRS, but I still need repetition so, I get my SRS naturally through reading and listening to native materials. Some people don't like a course with a lot of grammar drills. I do. Are they fun and exciting? For most people, no, they aren't. I do them anyway because I know that they will help me to learn the language I want to learn. In turn, that makes them "fun" for me when others would find them too boring. "Yay, I finished the set of drills today. I can feel the language growing in my mind!" So learning the language is my motivation. Having done it a few times, I know that if I can be persistent and consistent that I will learn the language. Then, once I reach a level where I can learn by reading, listening, conversing and watching TV and films, that's my reward. That's how I psych myself out to get through the boring bits. It's worth all the boring bits for me to get to that point.

Ultimately, if a course isn't working for you, if you hate doing it every day, then drop it like a wet fish. For a language like Italian there are heaps of choices besides Assimil. I have never used Assimil and it hasn't hurt me. Still, those other choices will all be imperfect and have "boring" aspects too. Or, suck it up and get tough and keep going with what you've got... but add some fun in outside the course. Even at the beginner level you can have fun figuring out a song or a quote on your own, watching a cartoon in TL you may know from your L1, watching youtube videos, etc. There's a third option, one I hesitate to bring up, but just as Assimil isn't for everyone, neither is language-learning. Some things to think about.
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Re: Question on Assimil Italian

Postby neumanc » Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:44 pm

ilmari wrote:There are three generations of Assimil Italian (I am referring to the French editions).

1. L'Italien sans peine, by A. Chérel, 1957 (there may be an earlier edition, I'm not sure).
First lesson: Parla italiano?
Like all the old Assimil methods, it is thoroughly excellent and enjoyable, although obviously dated.

2. Le nouvel italien sans peine, by Giovanna Galdo and Ena Marchi, 1983.
First lesson: Al telefono
Also excellent, but quite demanding. The lessons start higher than at beginners' level. Good if you want to focus on grammar, which is presented in quite a systematic way. The main lesson is divided into two parts, separated by an extra line: dialogue, followed by grammar example sentences.

3. L'italien, by Anne-Marie Olivieri, 2004 (a new edition, with only a different layout, has been recently published).
First lesson: Benvenuto in Italia!
This is a standard 21st century Assimil. Shorter lessons and slower progression, with less vocabulary repetition. Easy at the beginning, difficult to stick with (at least for me).

Ideally, you could study the three books in parallel, or only 2 and 3. All depends on your needs and motivation.

To be exact, there have been two different editions of the third generation Assimil Italian course ("L'Italien"), the one from 2004 and another one from 2014. Both have the same author (Anne-Marie Olivieri), the same number of lessons (100) and exercises (186). Even the titles of the lessons are identical (with exception of the 93rd and 94th lesson). But the 2014 version has more pages (instead of 528 pages, it has 573 pages, using the same good old layout from before 2016) and also more content and audio. This is because the later lessons have been injected with additional sentences here and there. For example, the last three lessons (the 97th, 99th and 100th) have 18, 16 and 15 sentences instead of 13, 11 and 12. In my opinion, the 2004 version was evidently too lightweight (it was one of the thinnest Assimil courses right beside "Le Malgache" and "L'Ukrainien"), so they did a face-lift. It's nothing more, because under the hood, there's essentially the same course (same concept, same storys, same progression, etc.). In respect to content, the 2014 version is perhaps equal to the third generation Assimil Spanish course (which isn't very in-depth either). Now, the interesting question would be: Which of two versions has been used for the adaption for English speakers? I honestly don't know.
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Re: Question on Assimil Italian

Postby Seneca » Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:21 am

iguanamon wrote:
Seneca wrote:...Con: Boring. You won't be excited for studying with it each day. Your motivation to learn better be high to outweigh the general malaise this will make you feel in your heart. Also, while the grammar explained is not wrong, per se, it simply isn't thorough enough to tell you what you need. So not really an all-in-one package.
Buyer beware to future Italian students, I think Italian With Ease may be worth it more, even with outdated currency and technology reference. I have no idea how much Italian has changed since Without Toil, but it may be worth a look before this current version as well. It is a shame. A great method seemingly ruined by trying to fit it into the CEFR guidelines. Dumbed down and boring.
Unfortunately, it is too useful to leave behind, I think :(

I will say this, that no course is perfect. All have faults. Most courses are "boring". Repetition is an important aspect of learning a language and repetition, by its very nature, is not exciting. It's hard to make a course exciting when it is trying to teach a language from scratch. Most course authors don't even try. So, I'll give Assimil some credit for at least trying.

So, given that "boring" is the norm for the vast majority of courses, how do you get past that? You are right. Your motivation to learn has to come from within yourself. You can't depend on a course to give you that motivation. Ultimately, the difference here between the people who are successful at learning a language to a high level and those who fail is the ability to stick with a process even if it has some "boring" aspects to it.

Ultimately, if a course isn't working for you, if you hate doing it every day, then drop it like a wet fish. For a language like Italian there are heaps of choices besides Assimil. I have never used Assimil and it hasn't hurt me. Still, those other choices will all be imperfect and have "boring" aspects too. Or, suck it up and get tough and keep going with what you've got... but add some fun in outside the course. Even at the beginner level you can have fun figuring out a song or a quote on your own, watching a cartoon in TL you may know from your L1, watching youtube videos, etc. There's a third option, one I hesitate to bring up, but just as Assimil isn't for everyone, neither is language-learning. Some things to think about.

I'd say there is a distinction here worth making. Nobody ever accused DLI of being enjoyable or interesting. I believe that it and FSI are even referred to as the "drill-and-kill" method. If you were told it was humorous and would keep you wanting to come back to read/work on just due to the dialogues themselves, perhaps you'd feel you were misled as well. Maybe I am more of a sequential learner than I thought, and thus might get more out of a grammar-focused method than Assimil.

As for your last line, you may be right. But that isn't me. Language learning may not be for everyone, but Italian is for me. Just a matter of finding the most effective way for me to learn. I just wanted to bump this because Italian, while not nearly as popular as French or Spanish for a second language, is popular enough I am sure new posters will be curious about this course. I am just trying to help the community so these people know what they are getting. Expectations are important.
neumanc wrote:To be exact, there have been two different editions of the third generation Assimil Italian course ("L'Italien"), the one from 2004 and another one from 2014. Both have the same author (Anne-Marie Olivieri), the same number of lessons (100) and exercises (186). Even the titles of the lessons are identical (with exception of the 93rd and 94th lesson). But the 2014 version has more pages (instead of 528 pages, it has 573 pages, using the same good old layout from before 2016) and also more content and audio. This is because the later lessons have been injected with additional sentences here and there. For example, the last three lessons (the 97th, 99th and 100th) have 18, 16 and 15 sentences instead of 13, 11 and 12. In my opinion, the 2004 version was evidently too lightweight (it was one of the thinnest Assimil courses right beside "Le Malgache" and "L'Ukrainien"), so they did a face-lift. It's nothing more, because under the hood, there's essentially the same course (same concept, same storys, same progression, etc.). In respect to content, the 2014 version is perhaps equal to the third generation Assimil Spanish course (which isn't very in-depth either). Now, the interesting question would be: Which of two versions has been used for the adaption for English speakers? I honestly don't know.

I am not sure if you'll find the answer as interesting as the question, but the current version in English is the less substantive and shorter version with 13, 11, and 12 sentences in the 97th, 99th, and 100th lessons, respectively.
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Re: Question on Assimil Italian

Postby ilmari » Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:42 am

A new (French) edition of Assimil Italian has been published in 2021, with a new author, Federico Benedetti: 100 lessons, 728 pages.
https://www.assimil.com/fr/recherche?original_lang=39&lesson_lang=76&level_lang=&controller=search&orderby=price&orderway=desc
You can download a sample here:
https://monachat.assimil.online/extraits/produits/9782700508109_extrait.pdf
or try the app.
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Re: Question on Assimil Italian

Postby garyb » Mon Sep 19, 2022 12:25 pm

I can't speak for the others, but I thought that Le nouvel italien sans peine was excellent. One of the most enjoyable language courses I've done, and aside from some references the language was still fairly current and a good mix of formal and colloquial.

I don't think I'd recommend it to an absolute beginner though. I already knew French quite well (B2ish) and had worked through some more basic Italian material before picking it up. It's more of a post-beginner-to-intermediate course - which is where Assimil shines, in my opinion, and it's a shame that they've tried to make their newer courses cover A1 to B2 because it means they start slow and boring and then quickly get too advanced.
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Re: Question on Assimil Italian

Postby tractor » Sun Sep 25, 2022 6:52 pm

ilmari wrote:2. Le nouvel italien sans peine, by Giovanna Galdo and Ena Marchi, 1983.
First lesson: Al telefono
Also excellent, but quite demanding. The lessons start higher than at beginners' level. Good if you want to focus on grammar, which is presented in quite a systematic way. The main lesson is divided into two parts, separated by an extra line: dialogue, followed by grammar example sentences.

There are two different recordings of this course. Same content, but different voice actors. One is significantly faster than the other, especially the first lessons.
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