Pimsleur: Publishers and Variants

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Pimsleur: Publishers and Variants

Postby Speakeasy » Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:56 am

Pimsleur: Different Publishers and Course Variants
Earlier this year, I came across a variant of the Pimsleur Language Program for which the course content differs entirely from those published by Simon & Schuster. This discovery aroused my curiosity concerning the existence of other publishers and variants of these courses. So, I continued searching, I bought a couple of used courses and, to date, I have come up with the following:

Reader’s Digest
Beginning around 1984, Reader’s Digest began publishing a collection of courses entitled “At Home With …” for the teaching of Spanish, German, French, and Italian. This collection replaced a previous series of courses under this title that appears to have been available since the early 1960’s. The new collection was developed with the collaboration of Paul Pimsleur, the recording medium was audio cassettes, and the package included a small dictionary and a User Guide which contained a lesson-by-lesson glossary, a transcript of the basic conversations, and other information useful to the traveller. Although the Pimsleur method was used throughout the course, the dialogues and course content differed completely from those published by Simon & Schuster in the 1990’s and later. It would appear that Reader’s Digest ceased publishing this collection in the early 1990’s. I have a copy of each of the Spanish, German, French, and Italian audio cassette courses and I will be requesting permission of the current holder of the copyright to release them free-of-charge to the public. I anticipate that my request will be declined or simply ignored, but it is always worth asking, n’est-ce pas?

Recorded Books LLC
In the 1990’s, and perhaps earlier, Recorded Books LLC began publishing a collection of courses entitled “Pimsleur Language Programs” for the teaching of a wide variety of languages. The collection was developed by Paul Pimsleur, the recording media were audio cassettes, thence CDs. Although the introductory sound tracks identify Recorded Books as the publisher, the CDs and packaging identified Simon & Schuster as the holder of the copyrights. Save for the introduction, the recorded contents of my copy of the Recorded Books Pimsleur German course are identical to those of the Simon & Schuster German course of the same period. In addition, while the accompanying “Supplemental Reading Booklet” identifies Recorded Books as the publisher, the contents are identical to those of the Reading Guide accompanying the Simon & Schuster course. It would appear that Recorded Books ceased publishing this collection in the earlier 2000’s. Searches of the company’s website still yield icons for these courses; however, the links themselves lead to the Simon & Schuster website.

Internet Order LLC / Stroll LLC / PimsleurApproach.com
With the exception of the course titles, “Pimsleur Approach” and “Pimsleur Approach Gold Edition”, my searches of this variant suggest a history similar to the Recorded Books variant. While the packaging and labelling of the CDs differ, the recorded contents of my copy of the Pimsleur Approach Gold Edition German course are identical to those of the Simon & Schuster German course of the same period. It would appear that Internet Order LLC / Stroll LLC / PimsleurApproach.com ceased publishing this collection fairly recently. Searches of the company’s website still yield icons for these courses; however, the links themselves lead to the Simon & Schuster website.

Simon & Schuster
Simon & Schuster would appear to be the sole, extant publisher of the Pimsleur courses. As far as I understand, the original version of courses are now available only as downloadable MP3 files either directly from the publisher’s website or from Audible. A second version of these courses was published the title “Pimsleur Unlimited” which can be found on the publisher’s website through the Search function. However, it is not clear to me whether or not Simon & Schuster still sells this (somewhat) enhanced computer variant.

Addendum: Why?
You might be asking yourselves why I conducted this research and why I purchased a couple of used Pimsleur courses from publishers other than Simon & Schuster. Well, this started with my serendipitous discovery of Reader's Digest's completely different variant of the Pimsleur program. In the anticipation of finding other variants, I searched the Internet and came up with those listed above. Although very little information was available on the Recorded Books variant, it seemed to me that the possibility existed that this publisher had developed their own variant in collaboration with Paul Pimsleur and that, some years later, they withdrew from this particular market and that Simon & Schuster purchased the rights and might have produced an entirely new variant. This turns out not to have been the case. As to the PimsleurApproach.com variant, again, there was not very much information available. However, I came across comments on the Internet alluding to shady business practices and the publication of an ersatz variant of the Pimsleur courses that was not as well-developed as the Simon & Schuster variant. This intrigued me and I purchased a used copy. As it turns out, it was merely a more attractively-packaged copy of the former. Curiosity killed the cat ... satisfaction brought it back.

Comments, anyone?


EDITED:
Typos
Title shortened
Addendum
Last edited by Speakeasy on Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pimsleur: Different Publishers and Course Variants

Postby Elexi » Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:37 pm

Thanks for the information. I used the Reader's Digest At Home With French when I began language learning and found it to be a nice course. I always thought it was the same as the S&S French 1 course (which I have never done), so never bothered to digitize it. Wish I had now.
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Re: Pimsleur: Publishers and Variants

Postby iguanamon » Tue Sep 27, 2016 3:32 pm

Good post, speakeasy. I have used Pimsleur Portuguese Volumes 1-3 and Haitian Creole Volume 1 (only 1 volume). Of course, I used them as a part of my learning. I found Pimsleur to be very good at two things, generating "automaticity" in speech and training good pronunciation. They are in woeful need of updating. I'd like to see a reboot of the series to concentrate less on "business traveler" and more on the casual traveler. The Portuguese volumes had a lot of business oriented dialog. I didn't need to go to the dry cleaner in Brazil or Portugal nor did I have to take notes at any meetings.

Obviously, I got my needed vocabulary elsewhere, still, it would be nice to have an updated course with reference to ATM's (cash machines), wifi (login and password), internet, facebook, the metro, vegetarians' needs, dialog about buying a short term phone or sim card- modern travel needs and wants. I think Simion and Schuster would be wise to update the Pimsleur method. The fundamentals are sound and work well even with the outdated nature of the courses. I just think they would serve a new generation much better with courses updated to modern times. They don't have to go all out with fancy bells and whistles but keeping the all audio nature of the program, providing mp3's and ditching the CD's would be good. This should also make their program cheaper to consumers.

When I was doing the Portuguese course, it was obvious that the target market was business travelers. Since businesses have the ability to write off the cost of courses like Pimsleur on their taxes as business expenditures, it was priced accordingly high. That's why when I recommend the program, I always advise to get it from the library. Cost is a real barrier to non-business learners. Many beginners see that cost and then look at the content and conclude that it's not worth the price for what you get in a strict cost-benefit analysis.

Pimsleur itself contributes to this belief by over-hyping what the course can do. Somebody will ask on the forum how many words does it teach and the answer will be around "900". The learner will then conclude that the course is useless, especially when considering the cost. I find the overall concept and method to be useful. When the course is used in conjunction with, or alongside, a more thorough course then its benefits are many- synergy; seeing common words in different contexts; getting learners to produce real speech quickly developing good pronunciation. The audio focus helps the learner to get accustomed to the spoken language and to be free from the computer or desk. A learner can do other things at the same time like walk around while listening. This is what I found useful when I did Pimsleur. Cut the price in half, get rid of the focus on business travelers, update it to modern times and dial down the hype, that's what I would like to see from Pimsleur. Hey, what do I know? I'm just a language learner.
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Re: Pimsleur: Publishers and Variants

Postby Speakeasy » Tue Sep 27, 2016 4:30 pm

Iguanamon, thank you very much for your comments, which I support entirely! In addition, I would note that the Pimsleur approach to grammar, which must be inferred from the examples and which forms an essential part of the core vocabulary of the course, helps the student integrate the basic structure of the target language. Then again, I suppose that the simple repetition of either sentence-pattern drills or dialogues would have a similar effect.

In the anticipation that the current holder of the copyright to the Reader's Digest variant of the Pimsleur courses will grant permission for their free-to-the-public distribution, I will be digitizing my copies of the Spanish, French, German, and Italian courses for subsequent uploading to the FSI-Languages-Courses database. The focus of the Reader's Digest variant is on the needs of the tourist and, as I remarked in a separate discussion thread, I find it superior to, and more agreeable to work with than, the Simon & Schuster variant.

Cut the price in half, get rid of the focus on business travelers, update it to modern times and dial down the hype, that's what I would like to see from Pimsleur. Hey, what do I know? I'm just a language learner.


Leave the price as it is, remove Michel's voice completely and replace it with that of a native-speaker of the language, likewise for voices of the two students, cut the hype, state openly that this "improved version" of the Michel Thomas course is no more than a nice little A0 Level introduction to the partial conjugation of handful of common verbs in the present and past tenses; that's what I would like to see from Hodder. Hey, what do I know? I'm just a language learner.

EDITED: minor, stylist changes
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Re: Pimsleur: Publishers and Variants

Postby Cainntear » Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:37 pm

Speakeasy wrote:Pimsleur: Different Publishers and Course Variants
Reader’s Digest
Beginning around 1984, Reader’s Digest began publishing a collection of courses entitled “At Home With …” for the teaching of Spanish, German, French, and Italian. This collection replaced a previous series of courses under this title that appears to have been available since the early 1960’s. The new collection was developed with the collaboration of Paul Pimsleur, the recording medium was audio cassettes, and the package included a small dictionary and a User Guide which contained a lesson-by-lesson glossary, a transcript of the basic conversations, and other information useful to the traveller. Although the Pimsleur method was used throughout the course, the dialogues and course content differed completely from those published by Simon & Schuster in the 1990’s and later. It would appear that Reader’s Digest ceased publishing this collection in the early 1990’s. I have a copy of each of the Spanish, German, French, and Italian audio cassette courses and I will be requesting permission of the current holder of the copyright to release them free-of-charge to the public. I anticipate that my request will be declined or simply ignored, but it is always worth asking, n’est-ce pas?

First you'll need to identify who the current copyright holders are, and I suspect that one of them will be Simon & Schuster. Even if it says Reader's Digest on the tapes, I doubt they bought out the full copyright, and probably wouldn't be able to sell it on. According to the Wikipedia article, Pimsleur himself was long dead by this point, and he'd signed everything over to his pal Heinle ages before. It was Heinle who sold on to Simon & Schuster, so whatever rights Heinle retained at that point, they'll now be with S&S.
Recorded Books LLC

If recorded books wasn't part of Heinle's company, then it would seem like they never had full rights, and were only licensees from Heinle's company.

Internet Order LLC / Stroll LLC / PimsleurApproach.com
....
It would appear that Internet Order LLC / Stroll LLC / PimsleurApproach.com ceased publishing this collection fairly recently.

They were never publishers, only resellers. I think S&S got shirty with them for the rebranding lark and their deceptive business practices (which were bringing the S&S into disrepute) and stopped supplying them (although that would have done that anyway when they went all-digital. If the sites now link to the official site, that would be something to do with the baying pack of lawyers S&S set loose on them....
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Re: Pimsleur: Publishers and Variants

Postby Speakeasy » Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:01 pm

Cainntear, thank you very much for your observations!

The brief statement concerning Reader's Digest copyrights on the inside cover of the Reader's Guide referring to the text and audio recordings of their variant of the Pimsleur course cannot be taken as definitive and I expect that it will be clarified by the legal staff who oversee the company's Intellectual Property. If they advise me that I should consult either Simon & Schuster or Beverly Pimsleur, I will not pursue the matter.

As to Recorded Books LLC, the possibility exists that Paul Pimsleur developed successive versions of his courses and that he licenced the rights to different publishers. I made mention of Recorded Books because, in my search for the Holy Grail, I purchased a used copy of Recorded Books' Pimsleur course in the hope of discovering one that differed from the Simon & Schuster version, as was the case for Reader's Digest version. This turned out to be a cul-de-sac in that the content is identical to that of the Simon & Schuster version. For this reason, I will not be pursuing this matter any further. By the way, it might interest you to know that there is an article on Wikipedia presenting a brief history of Recorded Books LLC.

The packaging of the Internet Order LLC / Stroll LLC / PimsleurApproach.com course that I purchased reads as follows: "This product is published by Internet Order, LLC, under licence from Simon & Schuster. Any use of the Pimsleur name or associated trademarks is solely to identify the product sold by Internet Order, LLC." Again, this turned out to be a cul-de-sac in my quest for the Holy Grail and I will not be pursuing this matter any further.

Employing Elexi's term for the condition, I have something of a "fetish" for older language-learning materials and my initial report above, concerning my search for Pimsleur "variants", is merely one manifestation of my affliction. May I rely on you to set up the "crowd sourcing" to pay for my counseling?
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Re: Pimsleur: Publishers and Variants

Postby Cainntear » Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:12 pm

Speakeasy wrote:As to Recorded Books LLC, the possibility exists that Paul Pimsleur developed successive versions of his courses and that he licenced the rights to different publishers.

The problem is that Paul Pimsleur died in 1976, 2 years before RC was first founded. Anything that didn't come via Heinle & Heinle/Simon & Schuster wuould have had to have been recorded before then, and preferably before 1974, when Wikipedia claims he sold the rights. The Reader's Digest tapes kind of intrigue me. Where did you get the info that Pimsleur himself was directly involved? It's possible he struck a deal with them when he was trying to drum up publicity, but they just didn't do anything with it for a decade or so....

The packaging of the Internet Order LLC / Stroll LLC / PimsleurApproach.com course that I purchased reads as follows: "This product is published by Internet Order, LLC, under licence from Simon & Schuster. Any use of the Pimsleur name or associated trademarks is solely to identify the product sold by Internet Order, LLC." Again, this turned out to be a cul-de-sac in my quest for the Holy Grail and I will not be pursuing this matter any further.

This has me intrigued too. They claim on the packaging to be the publisher? Are the discs printed with their brand, or are they just RB or S&S ones in a different box.

Employing Elexi's term for the condition, I have something of a "fetish" for older language-learning materials and my initial report above, concerning my search for Pimsleur "variants", is merely one manifestation of my affliction. May I rely on you to set up the "crowd sourcing" to pay for my counseling?

Sorry, I've been nosily looking at out-of-copyright direct method and grammar-translation books on archive.org -- I'm hardly in a position to help.
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Re: Pimsleur: Publishers and Variants

Postby Speakeasy » Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:59 pm

Cainntear

First, I would like to thank you for your continued interest in this discussion thread.

Second, I would point out that I am not an expert in matters pertaining to intellectual property, to copyrights, or to any other matters having legal import. As I indicated in the preamble of my initial post, my serendipitous discovery of the Reader's Digest version of a Pimsleur course aroused my curiosity concerning the existence of other publishers and variants of these well-known courses. My intention in opening this discussion thread was to expose the results of my personal search, it was not an invitation to debate the legal issues surrounding the existence of the versions that I have come across nor was it to postulate how the publishers acquired, or otherwise assumed, their rights to publish.

Third, in response to your question "The Reader's Digest tapes kind of intrigue me. Where did you get the info that Pimsleur himself was directly involved?" please note that my sole source of information has been the "Reader's Guide" accompanying these courses which states briefly "adapted and developed from the programmed language tapes devised by Dr. Paul Pimsleur, with permission ... Principles of programmed learning: Copyright 1967 Paul Pimsleur." I am fully aware of Dr. Pimsleur's untimely demise and my intention was merely to inform the reader of this discussion thread of the existence of the Reader's Digest version, that it had been produced with permission, and that it differed completely as to content to the version published by Simon & Schuster with which many of the forum members are familiar. My intention was not to embark on a fastidious discussion of who had the right to what, when, and how.

Fourth, as to your question "this (This product is published by Internet Order, LLC) has me intrigued too. They claim on the packaging to be the publisher? Are the discs printed with their brand, or are they just RB or S&S ones in a different box", please note that this is their claim, not mine and I provided this information in response to your claim that they were not publishers. Please read my original post carefully. That is, when I wrote that the contents of the CDs "are identical to those of the Simon & Schuster German course of the same period", my use of the word "identical" includes the fact that the CDs include a recorded statement that they were produced by Simon & Schuster. As to the CDs, they are identified in large type as "Pimsleur® Approach Gold Edition", in somewhat smaller type as "PimsleurApproach.com" and in miniscule type along the edge of the CDs, "2010 Simon & Schuster Inc., Pimsleur® is a registered trademark of Beverly Pimsleur. This product is published by Internet Order, LLC, under license from Simon & Schuster. Any use of the Pimsleur name or associated trademarks is solely to identify the product sold by Internet Order, LLC."

Fifth, this horse is dead ... this horse is no more. It has ceased to be. It's expired and gone to meet its maker. This is a late horse . It's a stiff. Bereft of life, it rests in peace. If you hadn't nailed it to the perch, it would be pushing up the daisies. It's rung down the curtain and joined the choir invisible. This is an ex-horse.

EDITED: Formatting and typographical errors
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Re: Pimsleur: Publishers and Variants

Postby Cainntear » Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:57 am

Speakeasy wrote:in response to your question "The Reader's Digest tapes kind of intrigue me. Where did you get the info that Pimsleur himself was directly involved?" please note that my sole source of information has been the "Reader's Guide" accompanying these courses which states briefly "adapted and developed from the programmed language tapes devised by Dr. Paul Pimsleur, with permission ... Principles of programmed learning: Copyright 1967 Paul Pimsleur." I am fully aware of Dr. Pimsleur's untimely demise and my intention was merely to inform the reader of this discussion thread of the existence of the Reader's Digest version, that it had been produced with permission, and that it differed completely as to content to the version published by Simon & Schuster with which many of the forum members are familiar. My intention was not to embark on a fastidious discussion of who had the right to what, when, and how.

Please don't think I'm having a go at you -- I was just trying to understand what you had written. If Paul Pimsleur had been directly involved, as I thought you had said, then it was possible that it wouldn't be owned by S&S, and I was trying to verify that.

Fourth, as to your question "this (This product is published by Internet Order, LLC) has me intrigued too. They claim on the packaging to be the publisher? Are the discs printed with their brand, or are they just RB or S&S ones in a different box", please note that this is their claim, not mine and I provided this information in response to your claim that they were not publishers. Please read my original post carefully.

Again, not having a go -- genuinely interested.
That is, when I wrote that the contents of the CDs "are identical to those of the Simon & Schuster German course of the same period", my use of the word "identical" includes the fact that the CDs include a recorded statement that they were produced by Simon & Schuster. As to the CDs, they are identified in large type as "Pimsleur® Approach Gold Edition", in somewhat smaller type as "PimsleurApproach.com" and in miniscule type along the edge of the CDs, "2010 Simon & Schuster Inc., Pimsleur® is a registered trademark of Beverly Pimsleur. This product is published by Internet Order, LLC, under license from Simon & Schuster. Any use of the Pimsleur name or associated trademarks is solely to identify the product sold by Internet Order, LLC."

That's what I wanted to know. Thanks. It's disappointing that someone at S&S actually granted a specific license to that bunch of scammers.
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Re: Pimsleur: Publishers and Variants

Postby Elexi » Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:44 pm

Unless it be thought I am critical of old course fetishism - Let me say I suffer from this condition too :D
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