Perfectionnement Italien or similar?

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JacobT
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Perfectionnement Italien or similar?

Postby JacobT » Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:26 pm

I have a question, and a bit of a dilemma, as to how to continue my Italian studies. I'm at an intermediate level of the language and want to improve my skills before delving into French, my next target language. I've pretty much finished Assimil Italian With Ease and, typographical errors notwithstanding, I've found it to be an excellent program. I'd like to continue with Assimil, but they don't produce anything in English or Spanish for intermediate or advanced learners. I came across "Perfectionnement Italien" on the Assimil website and listened to a sample lesson- I could understand the spoken Italian with no problem. I think it would be a great course for me, but the problem is that the explanations are in French. I only have a basic level of French. Could I get any use out of it? Is there something else you might recommend?

Incidentally, I own a copy of Assimil French with Ease and, at some point, I want to go through that course as well. I don't, however, want my Italian skills to suffer along the way. Should I continue Italian with a French-based course, or should I do the French course first and then move on to "Perfectionnement Italien"? Or is there some other strategy you might recommend? (I don't want to study too many languages at once as my time is limited and I always have to keep up with my Spanish too, which is infinitely better than my Italian but still in need of maintenance.)

Thanks in advance for your responses!
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Speakeasy
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Re: Perfectionnement Italien or similar?

Postby Speakeasy » Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:57 pm

Assimil Perfectionnement Italien
Although it would require some additional effort, you could, indeed, learn something from studying the "Assimil Perfectionnement Italien" course. If you wish to advance to the Intermediate Level, at some point in your studies you will have to begin using "native materials" and simply "slug it out" like the rest of us. So then, you could approach "Perfectionnement Italien" as a collection "graded dialogues" for which a transcription is conveniently provided. So, with the aid of a dictionary and a simple grammar, you could use this course. Taking on such challenges, as my uncles used to assure me, would "make a man of ya, put hair on your chest!"

Living Language Italian Ultimate Advanced
As an alternative to the Assimil course, you could use the "Living Language Italian Ultimate Advanced" course. Although Random House ceased publishing the "Ultimate" series a couple of years ago, new/used copies are still available via Amazon, AbeBooks, and other online bookstores. If you find the prices too elevated, you could always purchase a copy of this course under its previous title, "Living Language Italian All The Way 2". From my experience with the series, about the only differences between the two titles would be change to the Euro.
LINK 1: http://www.amazon.com/Living-Language-Ultimate-Italian-Advanced/dp/B00SB2HDHW/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1454364136&sr=8-12&keywords=living+language+ultimate+italian

Living Language Beyond the Basics: Italian
Although "Living Language Beyond the Basics: Italian" is not quite as developed as the "Ultimate Advanced" course, it does move the student "in the direction of" the Intermediate Level. One approach might be: complete this course and then use the "Perfectionnement Italien" course. Amazon LINK: http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Basics-Coursebook-Learners-Dictionary/dp/1400021766/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1454363137&sr=8-2&keywords=living+language+beyond+the+basics+italian

FSI Italian FAST
Unlike the majority of the FSI FAST courses, the Italian course is quite extensive and, in my view, it takes the student beyond the level achievable with the initial Assimil Italian course. It contains vastly more materials for practicing the language and it's freely available on the FSI-Languages-Courses website, LINK: https://fsi-languages.yojik.eu/languages/italian-fast-updated.html

Think Italian Audio Magazine
There are several audio magazines available for students of Italian. While none of them are courses, as such, they provide an excellent opportunity for students to move from the A2 level towards the B1+ level. Although they have their detractors, I am quite fond of the "Think" audio magazines ... LINK: http://www.thinklanguage.com/

Addendum: Italo-Franco?
There are numerous issues raised by your question as to which path to follow. Obviously, the time that you devote to studying an additional language must be "stolen" from the time that you would otherwise devote to your current area of studies. The matter of the possible interference in studying two related languages (French, Italian) can be off-set by the benefits of numerous cognates, similar grammar, etc. Many people report that, if they have already achieved a level of B1 in their 'first' second language, the interference poses no particular problem. As to be expected, just as many people report that they 'enjoy' the interference that accompanies studying two related languages. Although numerous serious studies exist on the subject, as for statistical probabilities, they are meaningless in the case of an individual event. Sorry, but it's up to you!

EDITED: The above text has been edited to include the 'Addendum' and to correct my habitual typographical, grammatical, and stylistic errors.
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kanewai
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Re: Perfectionnement Italien or similar?

Postby kanewai » Tue Feb 02, 2016 2:09 am

I've used a couple French-based Assimil courses. In general I really like learning a new language from an L2 base - I find I translate back into English much less in my head, and just let the language exist on it's own. And Assimil works really well when the base-language and target language are both in the Romance family.

The biggest challenge with this approach is that some Assimil lessons are heavily idiomatic, and I won't understand the meaning either in French or in the target language.

One option which might work for you is to use the Italian-based French program, Il Francese senza sforzo. This will keep your Italian active while you work on French, and afterwards you can move forward to the perfectionnement series.
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JacobT
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Re: Perfectionnement Italien or similar?

Postby JacobT » Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:53 pm

Thank you so much for the replies! I had a chance to look at the FSI Italian Fast course and it looks promising- I wouldn't have even considered FSI, with all I've heard about their Italian program, but this appears to be different. I'm not sure how much further than Assimil it will take me, but I like the fact that it's online and that there seem to be plenty of exercises with it. Many of the other resources listed also look promising. I guess it wouldn't be a bad idea to do the French Assimil course from an Italian base either...

My goals in Italian are to get as far as B2. I'm not quite there yet. With French, I'd like to get further but I'm starting from a lower base. What intrigues me, however, is how easily I can read it at this point. I'll definitely look into all these resources for Italian and, once I'm solidly intermediate, I'll dive into French... I'm already dabbling a bit in this language, but I'm trying to resist the wanderlust so that I can achieve my goals in each.

Grazie mille ancora!
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Speakeasy
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Re: Perfectionnement Italien or similar?

Postby Speakeasy » Sat Feb 06, 2016 5:57 pm

Reclassification
Somehow, I managed to append my comments, below, to another discussion thread. I have removed my misclassified post and left an explanatory post in its place. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. My apologies to JacobT, who had raised an important point.

JacobT wrote:I wouldn't have even considered FSI, with all I've heard about their Italian program...

The "FSI Italian" course that earned such a poor rating was the "FSI Italian Programmed" course. As demonstrated by the success of the FSI Portuguese Programmatic course, the programmed learning technique can be applied with excellent results to the teaching of languages. In contrast, the FSI Italian Programmed course, which I tried and abandoned about ten times before finally completing it, is a fine example of how a good concept can be so misapplied as to discredit the concept itself!

The "FSI Italian" course that is often overlooked, in part due to the poor rating of the FSI Italian Programmed course, but also in part due to the general cursory nature of the FAST courses, is the FSI Italian FAST course. I have never come across any evidence of the FSI having published a "Basic Italian" course using the audio-lingual method as had been done for so many of the languages in their curriculum. It may be that the lack of success of the FSI Italian Programmed course provided the impetus for the development of a much more substantial course for this language when the change of teaching philosophy lead ultimately to the FAST series. It is possible that potential users mistakenly disregard the FSI Italian FAST course because the general reputation of the "FSI Italian" courses has suffered on two separate counts, one justified by the desultory effort of the Programmed course, and the other circumstantial by its association with the rather cursory FAST series. This is quite a shame, really, as the FSI Italian FAST course is quite well-conceived and there are not many truly comprehensive resources available for learning Italian.
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