Sites/Apps like Readlang, Lingq, Lingua.ly, etc.

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Cainntear
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Re: Sites/Apps like Readlang, Lingq, Lingua.ly, etc.

Postby Cainntear » Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:18 pm

Hmmm... clearly uninstalling mysql-server wasn't enough, and it's left several packages behind... including the actual server, which is still running -- the log for XAMPP's MySQL instance says:

2016-10-19 17:00:42 140262163695488 [ERROR] Can't start server: Bind on TCP/IP port. Got error: 98: Address already in use
2016-10-19 17:00:42 140262163695488 [ERROR] Do you already have another mysqld server running on port: 3306 ?
2016-10-19 17:00:42 140262163695488 [ERROR] Aborting

...so I ran mysql from the command line and it was still using the password that I set up during my install of the mysql-server package. Now I've just got to work out how to kill that mysql instance...
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Cainntear
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Re: Sites/Apps like Readlang, Lingq, Lingua.ly, etc.

Postby Cainntear » Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:54 pm

Cainntear wrote:Hmmm... clearly uninstalling mysql-server wasn't enough, and it's left several packages behind... including the actual server, which is still running -- the log for XAMPP's MySQL instance says:

2016-10-19 17:00:42 140262163695488 [ERROR] Can't start server: Bind on TCP/IP port. Got error: 98: Address already in use
2016-10-19 17:00:42 140262163695488 [ERROR] Do you already have another mysqld server running on port: 3306 ?
2016-10-19 17:00:42 140262163695488 [ERROR] Aborting

...so I ran mysql from the command line and it was still using the password that I set up during my install of the mysql-server package. Now I've just got to work out how to kill that mysql instance...

I figured changing the port number in the MySQL config window would probably do the job. Changed it to 3307 et voilà... the server started immediately and I now have a working local LWT instance. Cheers!
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Cainntear
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Re: Sites/Apps like Readlang, Lingq, Lingua.ly, etc.

Postby Cainntear » Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:03 pm

limey75 wrote:2) Dictionary look up errors. When using the other default dictionary than Google Translate, I always get the following message:

"There is a limit of Glosbe API calls that may be done from one IP address in a fixed period of time, to prevent from abuse."

But I've only ever tried to look up TWO words! And I cannot see how to change the default dictionaries - does anyone know how?

That's a possible reason. Most likely you haven't set the language codes for the Glosbe dictionary.

If you see this in the "dictionary1" or "dictionary2" entry: glosbe_api.php?from=••&dest=••&phrase=### -- including specifically those little black circles "••" -- you need to set the language codes for your source (target) and destination (native) languages, eg. fr for French, en for English, de for German.
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Marais
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Re: Sites/Apps like Readlang, Lingq, Lingua.ly, etc.

Postby Marais » Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:18 pm

limey75 wrote:

1) The size of the texts you can import. It made 51 separate texts out of Kafka's Die Verwandlung, which is a bit annoying. So you can only use bite-sized texts with it.

You can do 'long text import' which will give you 999 sentences for one text. The program says 980 but i can do 999 for some reason.

4) Getting authentic, public-domain texts in the first place. You're limited by what you can get for free and out of copyright, unless you can find a way to import paid-for e-books?

You could always just use what's on the internet. Plenty of stuff out there for free even if it's not meant to be free.

If you don't like this, LingQ's library can easily be copied into LWT. You should be able to do this just with a free account. There is a guy, for French, who did a 50-odd part series on French history.
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Cainntear
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Re: Sites/Apps like Readlang, Lingq, Lingua.ly, etc.

Postby Cainntear » Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:22 pm

Sorry to dive back into history, I just saw a couple of things worth commenting on.

Xmmm wrote:I'm happy to pay $10 a month to the guy that thought up the original idea and enriched to world, and reward the innovator.

LingQ's not really a major innovation, it's just a stepwise evolution. Tools that automatically add mouse-over or click-to-access dictionary lookup have existed for over a decade, and integrating those with audio/video and transcripts has been done before too (e.g. CLILstore, a project a friend of mine did for a European university group).

The idea of picking out texts by what learners know isn't that great a leap -- Kaufmann himself cites Krashen's "i+1" as the motivation for this. I know I myself used to talk about trying to produce something along similar lines (but not limited to this input-only type of teaching and I still hope to one day) and it's great that someone finally made the idea a reality, but it doesn't become his sole property. The point about competition is that it pushes further innovation, and if LingQ's very basic ideas were protected by a patent, then a whole generation of tools that could build on those ideas and further them would be prevented from happening.

LingQ is kind of cool, but it's limited. Don't you want better tools?

Serpent wrote:
Xmmm wrote:But Serpent was implying that LingQ was somehow unfair to suppress discussion of LWT on the LingQ forum. This to me, is unfair.
We allow discussing Unilang here ;) Anyway, I'm okay with them deleting threads if they want, but automatically changing lwt to *** is cowardice imo. And obviously they can't promote lwt by introducing a rule that says you can't discuss lwt on their forum :lol: To me the problem is the silencing and keeping the users trapped because they can't take their LingQ's with them.

To be fair, Google works by association. The last thing you want is the name of your biggest source of competition being in Google's algorithm as being related to you.

(As a side note, I'm a member of a Scottish Gaelic language forum that has the word "translation" in its bad language filter -- it comes up as tr*nsl*t**n. Before we did this we were on page 1 of Google hits for "Gaelic translation" and "Scottish Gaelic translation" and constantly getting tattoo translation requests (including for Irish) -- within weeks of censoring translation, the problem was gone.)

sjintje wrote:I actually find the interface more pleasing than LWT (although it's a while since I looked at LWT) and it somehow just seems more "solid" to use. I also like the word translations offered, which are based on other users' inputs, rather than just a dictionary.

Of course -- LWT was knocked together by the original author just to suit his own needs, so it wasn't really designed to be user friendly, just to get the job done. (Hence the horrible installation process.) I imagine the whole point of the permissive license is so that someone else will pick it up, polish it and make it easier for people to use.

Of course, if one of the forks picks up on the social aspect and adds in file sharing between users, then LingQ's business model will start to look very shaky.

LingQ's main advantage at the moment is not Kaufmann's idea, and not the software platform -- it's the user base. Kaufmann produced something of fairly low intrinsic value and had a bunch of paying customers actually write all the content for him. That gives him inertia, and he seems to be coasting, assuming that what he has is the end goal. It isn't -- it can be improved. If he does that, then he'll stay in the lead. But if people make significantly better tools, LingQ will slowly lose its subscriber base.

But that word -- subscriber -- is what I really dislike about LingQ. $10 a month -- for what? There's practically no ongoing development costs for the site (although I see they've refreshed the site to make it look more like Duolingo... so much for rewarding the innovator!) and there's no cost to add material for existing languages while the community's doing it all for free. There will be probably be issues about adding in features to support new languages, but that's not something that necessarily interests current users, as the languages they're interested in are already there. $120 a year for storing a tiny amount of user data and transmitting a few mp3s... that's expensive. Hell, even just a one-off payment of $120 for one language would seem pretty pricey to me. If you subscribed to LingQ at that price from day one, you'd have paid, what... $900+ by now. That's a lot of money for what they offer.

Now I'm not suggesting that Kaufmann is making a lot of money out of it. He might be, he might not be; but if he isn't, then the business model clearly isn't working -- if you can't make profit at that price point, when can you?!?

If one of the forks can make LWT user-friendly enough to start genuinely interfering with their business, then they might be forced start looking at a more sensible price structure!
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jo11
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Re: Sites/Apps like Readlang, Lingq, Lingua.ly, etc.

Postby jo11 » Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:25 pm

In my opinion, the problem with lwt is the source code is a big mess. You can't just fork it and make a real lingq competitor out of it. Even most basic coding rules are not complied. No MVC structure, spaghetti code, not object orientated, many security issues (not using prepare statements, etc.) . Those things can't be fixed easily , basically starting from scratch and rewrite everything is the only solution.
This sounds harsh but it is a working tool. And that is what actually counts for most users. So I don't want to discourage anyone from using lwt. If its working for you, just use it
Last edited by jo11 on Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sites/Apps like Readlang, Lingq, Lingua.ly, etc.

Postby jo11 » Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:31 pm

I can't agree LingQ is too expensive. It's reasonable priced. People underestimate how much time , work and dedication you need to develop and maintain such a project.
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Re: Sites/Apps like Readlang, Lingq, Lingua.ly, etc.

Postby jo11 » Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:56 pm

I would love to see an open LingQ alternative, but you would need a team of 2 or 3 developers working full time for maybe 6 months before reaching anything comparable to LingQ.
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Stefan
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Re: Sites/Apps like Readlang, Lingq, Lingua.ly, etc.

Postby Stefan » Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:59 pm

ibrahimovic wrote:Since there is many who know LWT better than I do, is there a way to set-up an offline dictionary?

I have a limited data plan as I live in the small town in a 3rd world country.

I can't find any available alternatives but in theory you could solve it in a few different ways:

1) Write a script that access your built in dictionary. I have no idea how this is done.

2) Find a URL to call the offline dictionary. On Mac, I can open the dictionary by visiting dict://keyword in Safari. So if I edited LWT, I believe I could make it open the dictionary.app at the right translation whenever I click on a word. But it's not making the most of the API functions since you would have to jump between the softwares and copy/paste.

3) Create your own offline browser dictionary by downloading a free translation database (e.g. Dict.cc), insert it into a database and then write a simple PHP function to fetch the translation. According to lipflip.org the Deutsch-Englisch version of Dict.cc had 1.029.390 entries back in 2011-05-25 so the real question is if the database can handle all the data. I don't know whether it's an issue.

4) Use a software that can run a macro when you click on a word. So when you click on a word, the software copies it into your clipboard, it heads over to your dictionary, paste it, show the correct translation, copies it, heads over to LWT and paste it in the textfield. This is basically automating what you would have to do manually otherwise. It's far from great.

5) It seems you can use a PHP library named Enchant to access built in libraries on your computer.

This is everything I could find when searching and brainstorming. Using an offline dictionary really isn't an issue and there are a ton of them you can download as bundled apps. The problem is making it talk with LWT to avoid having to manually copy/paste every word into the dictionary and then back into LWT. I'm sure other people asked for it so head over to their forum and see what the creator say. I might miss something obvious.

------------------------------------------------------

On another note, I just found out (or rediscovered) that you can get inline translations:

Image
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neofight78
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Re: Sites/Apps like Readlang, Lingq, Lingua.ly, etc.

Postby neofight78 » Thu Oct 20, 2016 4:59 am

Cainntear wrote:But that word -- subscriber -- is what I really dislike about LingQ. $10 a month -- for what? There's practically no ongoing development costs for the site


That's simply not true, the site plus iOS and Android apps do get updated, and developers don't come cheap. I'm quite happy to pay $10 a month not to mess around trying to install LWT and for the convenience of having a proper iOS app. For other people it may not be worth $10 a month, but the price is not unreasonable.
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