Language Transfer

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mokibao
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Re: Language Transfer

Postby mokibao » Fri May 07, 2021 8:22 pm

I'm surprised that a rewrite of Arabic and Turkish is on the table - I thought he was well underway to finish them? Especially since those are languages that he does speak.

Regarding the paid positions - the conditions he's set for applications are so demanding that someone who does jump through all the hoops and makes it will have to be as passionate and disinterested as he is - which I guess is on purpose, because he said he'd been let down by people who renege on their promises. So I'm not that worried on that account.
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Cavesa
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Re: Language Transfer

Postby Cavesa » Fri May 07, 2021 8:45 pm

mokibao wrote:Regarding the paid positions - the conditions he's set for applications are so demanding that someone who does jump through all the hoops and makes it will have to be as passionate and disinterested as he is - which I guess is on purpose, because he said he'd been let down by people who renege on their promises. So I'm not that worried on that account.


Yes, it is understandable he wants only 100% reliable and suitable candidats on board. But that's simply hard to get for 500 dollars a month, especially if you're fishing in countries and professions, where getting much more is not too hard. Either he needs to up the money, or switch the languages to something more realistic for that money (out of the current top ten voted language, I guess 500 dollars might be reasonable for natives of Russian, Farsi, Hindi), or at least get rid of some of the hoops. No idea which one he'll choose.

For now, it is the best to take LT as it is and not expect much more. No news concerning the main content for months, that's not a good sign. And Mihailis branching out to stuff like music theory (why? there is nothing wrong with how it is usually taught, it is by far not as hard or complex as languages) isn't too encouraging either.
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mokibao
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Re: Language Transfer

Postby mokibao » Fri May 07, 2021 10:31 pm

For now, it is the best to take LT as it is and not expect much more.


Yeah, that's pretty much they way I see it. But I'd rather have no one show up than a sloppy teacher who will spoil the LT brand with bad courses, so to speak. And by the time he finds teachers and get them to write courses you'd be better off learning those through conventional methods anyway, it's not like there isn't an absolute plethora of quality resources for German, Chinese and Japanese.

In the meantime I'll keep in mind the Greek and Swahili courses, which appear to be the best and most complete ones anyway, just in case I ever have the time and fancy to listen to them one day.
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Re: Language Transfer

Postby jmar257 » Fri May 07, 2021 11:13 pm

Cavesa wrote:Well, I wouldn't hold the short courses against him, it is normal that a project evolves, as you go. But I'd partially agree with the rest.
For sure, but I remember at one point (probably a few years ago) he was talking about redoing an intro course then later doing a full course for that language...why not just do the full one from the jump and have the intro course be a subset of that? Speaking of the project evolving, I know for a while he was touting video courses but I'm not sure what came of that.

Cavesa wrote:It's not true that he's done nothing at all. He's recently published the vocab cards for Arabic learners (anyone can tell us, whether they are good, pls? To get more info in the thread). He has also made a methodology book for new teachers creating new LT courses, which took a lot of his time. And it was probably necessary, if we want more LT courses, as hiring new people for those is a must.

I understand you're feeling disheartened. I was considering donations (right now I cannot, but I will hopefully be able to in a few months again), but this was one of the things holding me back. There are no news not only about courses I'd be interested in learning from myself, but even about other courses I'd consider supporting. I thought his alternative and very non profit way of doing things was supposed to make space to focus on the underserved learners, to fulfill the original role of the LT (which was communication without barriers, like on Cyprus). Then he focused fully on the not needed languages (I'd like a better and Complete German, but I objectively see there is very little need for it, compared to various other languages.). And now there is no new primary content at all.

That's fair, I was a bit harsh there. But as someone who was originally drawn to LT for the original courses these other things, to sound a bit selfish, don't matter to me (although were I into Arabic those flash cards may be an exception). I agree with you that branching out of FIGS would be more interesting (and of course take more time, unless he finally did Catalan or something). I totally get not being able to donate, I didn't really have the spare cash up until a couple years ago so that's when I started. I still don't get much, but I'd definitely up it if I felt like it was going to something worthwhile (i.e., not music theory).

Cavesa wrote:For now, it is the best to take LT as it is and not expect much more. No news concerning the main content for months, that's not a good sign. And Mihailis branching out to stuff like music theory (why? there is nothing wrong with how it is usually taught, it is by far not as hard or complex as languages) isn't too encouraging either.

This is kind of the revelation I've had, if we get nothing else I feel like I've given enough to support it for as much as I've used it and hopefully more, as I'd like to go more than a few lessons into some of the ones I've dabbled in (Swahili, Greek). And we always have the current crop of courses, of which some are high quality. In reading AMAs a few years back with him he seemed a bit of an idealist, so I'm not totally surprised the project hasn't taken off like I'd expected, but I also hope he can find the funding and partners he needs to make it work.

Edit: There also is a smartphone app, so I will give him some credit for that. What little I've messed around with it it seems to make for an easier experience than remembering where you last were on your iPod or something.
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mokibao
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Re: Language Transfer

Postby mokibao » Fri May 07, 2021 11:36 pm

jmar257 wrote:I agree with you that branching out of FIGS would be more interesting (and of course take more time, unless he finally did Catalan or something).


I don't know if you already knew about it but for what it's worth he did do a couple of videos in Catalan (from Spanish, low quality audio):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iri9lm8__-4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJlEiXuSilo
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Fortheo
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Re: Language Transfer

Postby Fortheo » Sat May 08, 2021 2:16 am

Fortheo wrote:
I'm still waiting for complete German. It seems like even the delays get delayed. The site says he expects to release new tracks in July 2017, but I won't be surprised if that date is pushed back too.


Four years later and I'm still sad that there's no complete German course. I'd almost rather no German course at all instead of an indefinite incomplete one.

I still love the idea and general methodology of LT, though, so I hope he can keep putting out materials.
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Re: Language Transfer

Postby Cainntear » Sat May 08, 2021 8:10 pm

mokibao wrote:Regarding the paid positions

Position, singular. $500 for one teacher, and the rest have to live entirely off their own back.
the conditions he's set for applications are so demanding that someone who does jump through all the hoops and makes it will have to be as passionate and disinterested as he is - which I guess is on purpose, because he said he'd been let down by people who renege on their promises.

Yes, because even with good intentions, if you can't make a living doing something, you can't do a professional job. My YouTube channel died off the instant I got work, and it wasn't even a full-time job.

Asking someone to follow their dreams is one thing, asking them to follow your dreams is another. If I'm doing a job, I want paid. If I'm creating unpaid, I want creative control.

Mihailis keeps saying he doesn't want it to be a business, but without it being a business, he's never going to have enough money to do the job right.
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Cavesa
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Re: Language Transfer

Postby Cavesa » Mon May 10, 2021 12:57 pm

jmar257 wrote: For sure, but I remember at one point (probably a few years ago) he was talking about redoing an intro course then later doing a full course for that language...why not just do the full one from the jump and have the intro course be a subset of that? Speaking of the project evolving, I know for a while he was touting video courses but I'm not sure what came of that.

I didn't understand the idea of videos instead of audios, and I can say it would kill my desire to use LT completely. What is interesting about seeing people in a language lesson, what is added value? The downsides are looking at a screen and downloading more data.

That's fair, I was a bit harsh there. But as someone who was originally drawn to LT for the original courses these other things, to sound a bit selfish, don't matter to me (although were I into Arabic those flash cards may be an exception).

That's not selfish at all. It's the difference between what was advertised (and you decided to support it financially), and what is really being delivered. I think the already created value is good, but the future is very uncertain. Which is not a good strategy, when someone asks people for long term support and trust.

In reading AMAs a few years back with him he seemed a bit of an idealist, so I'm not totally surprised the project hasn't taken off like I'd expected, but I also hope he can find the funding and partners he needs to make it work.

Of course he's an idealist, but that is not only bad, it's even necessary for the project. Without being an idealist, he wouldn't have even gotten this far, it's an important part of it. But an idealist also needs a realist on the team, in order to achieve the best results. Honestly, the project took off much better than could have been expected, the already existing stuff is phenomenal, considering the conditions of its creation. Idealism has helped. But idealism ends, when you are asking people to work for you for a salary not allowing a normal life.

Edit: There also is a smartphone app, so I will give him some credit for that. What little I've messed around with it it seems to make for an easier experience than remembering where you last were on your iPod or something.

Yes, that's true, that is a huge progress.

Fortheo wrote:Four years later and I'm still sad that there's no complete German course. I'd almost rather no German course at all instead of an indefinite incomplete one.

Yes, spreading himself very thin and unfulfilled promises, those are huge problems of LT. I hoped to use that course, but I won't need it by the time it is really Complete (no point in doing an incomplete one imho).

Cainntear wrote:Asking someone to follow their dreams is one thing, asking them to follow your dreams is another. If I'm doing a job, I want paid. If I'm creating unpaid, I want creative control.

Mihailis keeps saying he doesn't want it to be a business, but without it being a business, he's never going to have enough money to do the job right.


Exactly. But even the 500 dollars would allow it to become more of a business, and to hire someone, just definitely not in the most expensive countries (=for the most expensive languages) on earth. Creating French courses for English speakers is simply not gonna be cheap, and it is not even that conforming to the idealism.

LT could become a business without destroying the noble idea of free language education. If sponsoring a course came with a bit of marketing (of course well dosed, to not destroy every recording with a minute long advertisement), I'm pretty sure he'd get more offers like for that Swahili course. A small advertisement place on the website could perhaps help too, without annoying the learners too much.

There has been no recent video on FB, Mihailis used to put ther one update almost every month. Since he announced his search for course creators, there has been nothing relevant to the main courses.
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Re: Language Transfer

Postby kanewai » Tue May 11, 2021 1:54 am

I recently finished the Complete Greek course, and the stand-alone app is a huge improvement. Downloading and importing lessons from SoundCloud or from the website was a pain. It's nice to have them all in one place. And given how rare good Arabic and Turkish courses are, I can see the value of developing a complete course for both. And if Mihalis then moves on to music theory, it won't bother me - he's already made a pretty significant contribution to language learning.
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Cavesa
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Re: Language Transfer

Postby Cavesa » Wed Sep 01, 2021 4:16 pm

Wow, big news on the LT FB! Somebody gave LT 1 bitcoin! That's over 40000 euros right now. And guess what language that generous person "voted" for? Hebrew!!!! YAY!!!

So, paid course makers are about to happen, the promised courses have a much bigger chance of actually being created. There will be Complete German, Japanese, Mandarin, Hebrew.

If you, generous person, happen to read this (one never knows), Thank you!

edit:fixed a typo
Last edited by Cavesa on Fri Sep 03, 2021 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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