The Nature Method Courses

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galaxyrocker
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The Nature Method Courses

Postby galaxyrocker » Thu Nov 11, 2021 3:47 pm

Per rdearman's post on the other thread, I do want to start a new thread on the Nature Method Courses. I think it's still good to have discussion on them. How do people best use them? Where can they be found in libraries, etc.

Regarding the second question, the third volume of the Russian one can be found at the library in Michigan State University in the United States. The Danish volumes can be found in the Royal Danish Library, though I was able to view them via Inter-Library Loan in Ireland, so they do loan them out. As regards the copyright, I know for sure the French, Russian and Italian ones have official copyright dates and (should) be public domain in the United States (though not in Europe). I'm unsure if the English one was registered officially in the United States. With regards to the Danish ones, I don't remember seeing a copyright in the book, so I'm unsure if it was ever officially registered in Europe (it wasn't in the US). That means we have to go on Arthur Jensen's date of death, which was sometime in the 70s. I'm unsure of the German ones. There's also rumors that a Spanish edition existed, but I have yet to see any evidence of its existence, unlike all the others, where I've seen at least one volume (or pictures of one).

Now, is there anyone here who knows legal stuff and what can be done for such 'orphaned' works? Is there a way to get them into the public domain and make them available for use even if we're not an educational institution?

Also, please remember to NOT share any of them here, or any YouTube channels or websites that might contain copies of them. We don't want the Forum to get in trouble!

Finally, has anyone thought of creating new ones? There's a newer Spanish one, which credits itself entirely to LLPSI, Lengua Española: Comprensíon which is available to buy, but it's not the same people. I have a copy but had to leave it in the States when I moved, so I haven't been able to go through it. I do admit I've thought of creating some for Irish before, but it's quite difficult work!
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lowsocks
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Re: The Nature Method Courses

Postby lowsocks » Sat Nov 13, 2021 2:28 am

galaxyrocker wrote:As regards the copyright, I know for sure the French, Russian and Italian ones have official copyright dates and (should) be public domain in the United States (though not in Europe). I'm unsure if the English one was registered officially in the United States.
Could you explain further, why the French, Russian, and Italian courses should be in the public domain in the U.S.?
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galaxyrocker
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Re: The Nature Method Courses

Postby galaxyrocker » Sat Nov 13, 2021 1:11 pm

Could you explain further, why the French, Russian, and Italian courses should be in the public domain in the U.S.?


They were all published before 1963 and never had their copyright renewed.
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rdearman
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Re: The Nature Method Courses

Postby rdearman » Sat Nov 13, 2021 5:06 pm

You can read about the oddities of US copyright law here: https://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ15.pdf

But first, let us cover just about every other country in the entire world. Most countries are members of the Berne Convention (1886), which stipulates that the duration of the term for copyright protection is the life of the author plus at least 50 years after their death. Prior to the United States joining the Berne Convention in 1989, U.S. authors/publishers/artists/etc had to obtain copyright on their works via a registration and renewal scheme. Since 1989 it is automatically obtained, with registration no longer required. However, many U.S. texts on copyright have not been updated and still echo the old registration principle. In the UK and the EU copyright protection was extended to 70 years after the death of the author.

So you can get this odd situation where a published work (1926-1989) is copyrighted in just about every country in the world except the USA and China. China because it didn't recognize copyright laws until 1980, when China became a member of the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO) and the USA because someone forgot to file a renewal form. Eritrea, Turkmenistan and San Marino, are said to have no copyright protection either for authors within their borders or for foreign works.

So it is possible to be able to copy and publish materials in the USA, Turkmenistan or China which are deemed "Public Domain" in those countries and yet be in violation of the laws of 176 other countries. This is the reason for my objection to people posting links to "The Nature Method" materials on this website, since although it might be legal in YOUR country, in probably isn't legal in MINE.

So if you want to post things here, you need to make sure that it is legally compliant with UK laws. Fun fact, there is one strange exception to UK copyright. In his will, the author of Peter Pan gave the copyright and all proceeds to Great Ormond Street Children's Hospital. The hospital used this money to treat children and purchase loads of super high-tech medical equipment and became the world's leading children's hospital for about 100 years. When the copyright ended and people were no longer required to pay money for the right to use Peter Pan, the UK Parliament passed a law to make Peter Pan copyrighted in the UK forever and all proceeds were to continue to go to Great Ormond Street Children's Hospital.
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Querneus
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Re: The Nature Method Courses

Postby Querneus » Sun Nov 21, 2021 10:11 pm

galaxyrocker wrote:Finally, has anyone thought of creating new ones?

Yes of course, but as you say, I've found writing them isn't easy at all!

I heard Seumas Macdonald (the guy writing one for Ancient Greek, very much a work in slow progress) tried to have the use of "Lingua X Per Se Illustrata" clarified, so that he could call his course LGPSI with full confidence, but never got a return email or call from the potential copyright owners he tried to contact.
Last edited by Querneus on Sun Nov 21, 2021 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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galaxyrocker
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Re: The Nature Method Courses

Postby galaxyrocker » Sun Nov 21, 2021 10:13 pm

Querneus wrote:Yes of course, but as you say, I've found writing them isn't easy at all!

I heard Seumas Macdonald (the guy writing one for Ancient Greek) tried to clear the use of Lingua X Per Se Illustrata, so that he could call his course LGPSI with full confidence, but never got a return email or call from the potential copyright owners he tried to contact.


I've learned this as well, unfortunately. Trying to work on one for Irish and even with the Italian one to base off of in how to handle two verbs for 'to be', it's still seems all but impossible. I actually have also been talking to Macdonald about it for Irish as well, since he has Gaelic. Maybe one day one will come about. Also quite annoying on copyright!
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Re: The Nature Method Courses

Postby mokibao » Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:34 pm

Let's recap what we know about the courses by language, shall we:

-Known to exist, fully available online or for purchase:

English: English by the Nature Method
French: Le Français par la Méthode Nature
Italian: L'Italiano Secondo il Metodo Natura
Latin: Lingua Latina per se Illustrata

-Known to exist, partially available:

Russian: Русский язык по методу Натура

-Known to exist, not available online or for purchase but can be borrowed:

Danish: Dansk efter Naturmetoden (per worldcat, galaxyrocker)

-Known to exist, not available:

German: Deutsch nach der Naturmethode (per aspartamo and his mysterious picture)

-Maybe known to exist?

Spanish: Naturmethode Sprachkurs Spanisch (per this mysterious item on worldcat)

-Inspired, available, incomplete:

Ancient Greek: Lingua Graecae Per Se Illustrata: https://seumasjeltzz.github.io/LinguaeG ... llustrata/
Japanese: https://drdru.github.io/stories/intro.html

-Inspired, complete, partially available:

Esperanto: Esperanto laŭ metodo Friis

Inspired, not sure if complete

Russian: Someone wrote their own book (patreon.com/LearnRussianbytheNaturalMethod) and is currently uploading a live reading (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u9YM5lE8eQI)
Last edited by mokibao on Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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guyome
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Re: The Nature Method Courses

Postby guyome » Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:12 pm

For Esperanto, there is also La Privilegia vojo (by Vilho Setälä,1977).



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Remarkablemusician25
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Re: The Nature Method Courses

Postby Remarkablemusician25 » Tue Dec 14, 2021 4:02 pm

Someone has started writing one for Brazilian and shared the first chapters in a reddit post named "I am writing "Portuguese by the Induced Natural Method" and I want your opinion".
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Le Baron
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Re: The Nature Method Courses

Postby Le Baron » Tue Dec 14, 2021 5:59 pm

Does anyone actually know who the supposed copyright holders are? I'm generally suspicious when they are unfathomable. I once posted a clip from a very old film on YT and months later got a copyright hit. Before challenging it I waited a few months then followed the supposed copyright owner's details and emailed them saying I was looking for information about said film for inclusion on a list of films, They replied that they had no knowledge of it.

I then sent this email to YT when I complained and the copyright hit was annulled. There are loads of chancers out there.
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