Excel as SRS for Japanese (Excel@Japanese)

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T.C. Seiko
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Excel as SRS for Japanese (Excel@Japanese)

Postby T.C. Seiko » Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:23 pm

Smallwhite wrote about using Excel as an SRS. Due to my lack of Excel-skills I never really figure out how to replicate her system, but I found something else:

https://web.archive.org/web/20140102191846/http://japaneselearningtools.com/

The site is not online anymore, but you can download an Excel-file where you can use Excel as an SRS to study the Kanji and vocabulary for the former JLPT tests from level 1 to level 4.

And just like in Smallwhite's case, you are supposed to type in the answer. I've been using the file for close to two weeks and the things I like best about this Excel-SRS are:

1.Active reviews: By typing in the answers I'm more conscious about producing the target language and less prone to mistakes (Excel will tell you if you accidentally typed a short "o" instead of a long "ou").

2. The speed: I just timed myself doing 50 reviews: around 3:30 min. And this is for active reviews where I'm typing the answers.

If I knew how to use Excel like this for my other other languages, I would ditch Anki in a heart beat.
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Re: Excel as SRS for Japanese (Excel@Japanese)

Postby language2015 » Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:32 pm

T.C. Seiko wrote:Smallwhite wrote about using Excel as an SRS. Due to my lack of Excel-skills I never really figure out how to replicate her system, but I found something else:

https://web.archive.org/web/20140102191846/http://japaneselearningtools.com/

The site is not online anymore, but you can download an Excel-file where you can use Excel as an SRS to study the Kanji and vocabulary for the former JLPT tests from level 1 to level 4.

And just like in Smallwhite's case, you are supposed to type in the answer. I've been using the file for close to two weeks and the things I like best about this Excel-SRS are:

1.Active reviews: By typing in the answers I'm more conscious about producing the target language and less prone to mistakes (Excel will tell you if you accidentally typed a short "o" instead of a long "ou").

2. The speed: I just timed myself doing 50 reviews: around 3:30 min. And this is for active reviews where I'm typing the answers.

If I knew how to use Excel like this for my other other languages, I would ditch Anki in a heart beat.


Are you studying sentences or words?

How do you incorporate audio into an excel spread sheet?

Probably better off using anki and excel.
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Re: Excel as SRS for Japanese (Excel@Japanese)

Postby T.C. Seiko » Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:55 pm

I do not incorporate audio into my SRS reviews as audio is not a great concern of mine; I mainly use the SRS to study words (or Kanji). For speaking I used to shadow the lessons over and over.

This file is a special case as it is supposed to prepare you for the vocabulary test section of the Japanese Language Proficiency Test (JLPT).

If you're mainly studying sentences (with audio) with your SRS, Excel won't be an adequate replacement. Same with nearly all the Anki-methods emk is using.

If you're studying single words or kanji recognition, this may be a great alternative.
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Re: Excel as SRS for Japanese (Excel@Japanese)

Postby smallwhite » Mon Nov 30, 2015 5:38 am

T.C. Seiko wrote:Smallwhite wrote about using Excel as an SRS.
...
If I knew how to use Excel like this for my other other languages, I would ditch Anki in a heart beat.


The Japanese file you shared looks very useful.

I'd just like to point out that, while both this file and my file use Excel and may seem similar, they use completely different interfaces, and it's precisely the interface that I believe my file brings about efficiency. Or, it's precisely the interface that RDearman likes about my file, I believe. The difference is this:

* In this Japanese file, just like with all SRS apps that I've seen, questions appear one-by-one. You are shown Question 1, and you answer, then you are shown Question 2.

* In my file, all the questions are there on the screen, listed in a column. You can start reading Question 2 while you're typing Answer 1, or at least while you're pressing Enter. And that saves time. And if you DON'T want to read Q2 yet then just don't. It's up to you, you have the choice, with every word.

So, this Japanese file looks just like a normal SRS app to me in terms of interface & efficiency. However, it WOULD work faster than some apps, especially Memrise, because answer-checking and card-flipping are instantaneous - no fade-in fade-out, no pages sliding towards the left, no bursting stars, fancy graphics or congratulation pages. Just click-flip-click-flip-click-flip, and that's great.

I want to mention also that grouping things within a small area of the screen so that your eyes don't have to move so much would also contribute to speed and reading comfort, something I consider important when I design websites, accounting reports and admin forms, but I don't think anyone here cares much about these things.
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Re: Excel as SRS for Japanese (Excel@Japanese)

Postby Serpent » Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:34 am

smallwhite wrote:I want to mention also that grouping things within a small area of the screen so that your eyes don't have to move so much would also contribute to speed and reading comfort

That's a good point. Quite offtopic but have you tried Spritz or other speedreading software?

BTW I've reread the original thread where you described your excel method. One thing I assumed was that with your spreadsheet the words would always be in the same order. Is that correct or do you randomize them?

I'm also starting to wonder if discarding the most difficult words/parts no matter how important they are is worth it. In your view, are there no words that are crucial for a specific level, like B2? Or would you say they exist and you do pick up these important words through other means, like reading? And do some "difficult" words eventually become easy and SRS-able?
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Re: Excel as SRS for Japanese (Excel@Japanese)

Postby emk » Mon Nov 30, 2015 12:39 pm

Serpent wrote:And do some "difficult" words eventually become easy and SRS-able?

My experience is that "leeches" (cards which I fail again and again) are utterly poisonous to successful and pleasant SRSing. What happens is that all the easy cards rapidly space out to long intervals, but that the same 50 evil cards get recycled endlessly. And no matter how many times I see them in Anki, they don't get any easier or more pleasant.

But if I just delete or suspend my leech cards, and go read a couple of books, I'll learn those horrible expressions naturally, from input, without ever even trying.

My recommendation is to use Anki as a "memory amplifier, not a database of things I absolutely must learn." The way I figure it, Anki can "amplify" my memory of a rare expression by a factor of 5 or 10. But sometimes, even if I improve my memory 5 or 10 times, it's still not enough. If I haven't seen certain complicated expressions often enough in real input, then my brain isn't ready to acquire them.

Hence my advice: If I ever look at a card and say, "Oh, no, not this card again," I just delete it. I've done something like 35,000 Anki reviews, and I've personally found that it's never worth fighting with a leech. If I need to know the word, I'll keep seeing it, and I can learn it when my brain is ready. In my experience, this one habit turns SRS software from a torture machine to an addictive little game I like to play.
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Re: Excel as SRS for Japanese (Excel@Japanese)

Postby smallwhite » Mon Nov 30, 2015 12:56 pm

Serpent wrote:Quite offtopic but have you tried Spritz or other speedreading software?


Yes, I have. I thought about Spritzing the English version of a book before I read it's target-language version extensively. Or maybe I did try, I don't remember.

I randomise words in my Excel file.

Serpent wrote:I'm also starting to wonder if discarding the most difficult words/parts no matter how important they are is worth it. In your view, are there no words that are crucial for a specific level, like B2? Or would you say they exist and you do pick up these important words through other means, like reading? And do some "difficult" words eventually become easy and SRS-able?


I'm not learning languages for anything in particular, so I guess no single word is crucial, except obvious words like "I", "and", "today", etc.

Are you thinking about the ~10% of difficult words that never get learnt because I only learn the easiest words? I do try to learn those difficult words once in a while, using various methods. (Method 1) After picking 9 easy words, I may pick 1 hard word that, say, looks very much like one of the 9, or sounds like it, or has a similar meaning, and learn the 10 together. (Method 2) I may pick 5 hard words that are identical except for 1 small part, eg. toben soben koben moben hoben, and that makes them easier to learn.

Hard words do become easier. Not just because of reading elsewhere, but also because when I go through the master word list to find easy words to learn, I read the list word-by-word, and words that stay there get read more often.

I didn't intend to pick up remaining words through reading because back then I didn't know you can learn words through reading. I thought you learn words in order to read. Or maybe I've heard about learning words through reading, but I don't read much, so I would'nt have relied on reading to learn words.

And if you ask me now, I'd still forgo difficult words, because there's always the dictionary. I'd rather learn just 95% of what I set out to learn, hope the remaining 5% never pop up, and should they pop up then I'd just use a dictionary.

(For some reason, I'm not sure if I'm answering your questions...)
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