Taking Notes and Tweaking Pimsleur/Audio Lessons

[Decidida]

I cannot do a lesson a day of Pimsleur, and see no text.

I started over and started taking notes on each lesson. I was shocked at how many grammar topics are covered in each lesson. I get so much more out of each lesson by identifying the topics covered and spending a little time on explicit instruction, drawing some charts, and then going back and doing the lesson a couple times.

I'm only doing a word-for-word transcript of the short dialogue at the beginning or end if there is one. Other than that, I am just writing down new vocabulary, any examples of the new grammar topic being introduced, or anything that is difficult for me.

The 30 minute lessons work better for taking a walk than anything else, but I need to tweak the suggested method to make it work for me.

I am curious about how others use Pimsleur and audio lessons in general, if they do not just use them as suggested.

[lavengro]

Hi Decidida,

I am a big Pimsleur fan and I also consider myself definitely to be a more effective visual than auditory learner. I say this recognizing there is some debate on this forum as to whether there actually are different types of learners. But for me, based on years of experience, I find it much, much more challenging learning something without the benefit of seeing a word compared to only hearing it.

As a result, I have never used Pimsleur until I have a certain amount of the language underneath me already. Even at that point I find Pimsleur a real mental workout, but one well worth engaging in. Like suggested in your comment, I enjoy Pimsleur mostly when walking and can't really do it while sitting at a table.

I usually repeat lessons, sometimes more than once. About the initial dialogues at the beginning of each lesson, I find at least with Italian that the dialogues are generally harder to understand than the lesson that follows. I usually work at the dialogue a couple of times, then do the unit, then go back to the dialogue but even then find it to include faster speech than in the lesson. I don't remember whether that was the case for me with French. I've not done Pimsleur Spanish yet.

For what it may be worth, I would recommend taking multiple passes through the audio instead of transcribing; it will be a headache sometimes, but one that you come out of on the other side with increased verbal facility.

Good luck either way!

[Decidida]

I definitely do better using Pimsleur far behind my other studies, so that I am already familiar with the content and have SEEN it. I just cannot learn words by hearing them only. At least not yet. I think our brains adapt to what we have available, and as a child, that was printed text. I think some of language learning is learning more than the target language.

Because I used Pimsleur so far behind my other studies this time, I was able to keep up for awhile, but I totally missed the structure of the lessons, until I went back and took notes. The first lessons are not just drilling silly phrases. They are systematically teaching grammar. But I do not believe I was getting the full benefit, because I did not recognize the patterns that I was supposed to infer. I was just memorizing unconnected phrases

And if I had not already learned the spelling of the words, from other curricula, I would not have learned pronunciation, because I truly cannot understand audio only. Not just in a target language, but even in my native language. I cannot learn English words until I see them.

Pimsleur works best for me as the last step of scaffolding. Audio-only is critical to use, for the very reasons that it is so hard to use: I do not listen well. I cannot start with my greatest weakness. I need to work up to it.

Reading Paul Pimsleur's book on language learning was also helpful. I definitely recognize his horizontal verb method and believe that I am benefiting from it.

Yes, I have no interest in seeing or creating a full transcript. I know that I need to learn to LISTEN. The dialogues are hard for me, though, because some of what is included is so unexpected and odd to me. I definitely need to read those through, over and over by SIGHT, before I try and listen to them fullspeed. I have to play the short dialogues multiple times at 75% speed to transcribe them.

[Miss_French_2020]

Hi Decidida,

I love the Pimsleur Method I've done 4.5 levels of French, and 2 levels each for German, and Spanish. I'm someone who basically used it exactly as intended and that worked well for me. That is, I used it right from the beginning of my learning, did one lesson a day, only repeating if I got less than 80% correct. I also didn't start any reading until after I finished at least Level 1. For me, the power in the method was in it being Audio-Only, because I had to learn to listen carefully and pronounce correctly without relying on the written form.

I remember there being a few times where all of a sudden the lessons became too difficult, a certain new structure wasn't sticking. If repeating lessons or pausing the audio to give me more time to respond didn't really help much, I just continued on with other materials (I liked Michel Thomas as a complementary audio course). After a little while, I would have an Aha! moment and when I returned to Pimsleur where I left off, it all clicked. I think my brain just wasn't ready for it at the time or it need more exposure in different forms for it to stick. For this reason, using a couple of different materials in parallel worked well for me as they all reinforced each other.

Also, in my experience, the dialogs at the beginning of the lessons are supposed to be slightly too difficult. I don't think you are meant to understand them fully, as they always introduce some new stuff that they haven't taught you yet. In my opinion, they are trying to train listening skills and to gradually get you used to some uncertainty which is an important skill to gain.

All the best

[iguanamon]

Pimsleur serves as a compliment in a multi-track approach for me. When I was starting with a new language, my primary resource was a textbook with accompanying audio course. I usually did the textbook & audio course in the morning and I did Pimsleur throughout the day and in the evening- walking, driving, waiting, doing the dishes and before I went to sleep at night. (You get good at whispering in public. People think you're just talking on the phone.) It does help to have some of the language under the belt already... maybe starting Pimsleur at around 20-25% of the course.

I've never needed or wanted to transcribe it. Almost all of what is covered in the course is/will be covered as I go along in my primary course (textbook and audio). Basically, you will see that vocabulary and hear those constructions in the primary course again, and again.

What Pimsleur does best is helping to make the basic language structure automatic. I'm not going to lie. It's hard. People think it's easy because the course gets discounted by many learners as being "inadequate". It lacks a transcript for a reason. It was designed that way. The course is not sufficient on its own to teach a learner any language. This is what the publishers won't tell you, but it's true. It is best used alongside a traditional textbook with audio course. Done in this way, it will help make the language "automatic" for the learner. I never pause it or rewind it. The pauses are there to give the learner time to respond. If I didn't get the recommended percentage of comprehension and response, I'd do the lesson again... and again if necessary.

Yes, almost anyone with sufficient mental capacity to do so can learn a second language as an adult- but it is not easy, especially the first one. That's why used language courses are almost always in great shape on the used book market. It's why beginners sometimes lose interest in the course and move onto another language thinking this will solve their problems and, no matter where they go, there they are. They always run into themselves and that's the barrier that needs to be broken by the learner.

Learning a language is work, effort, toil and frustration. Yes, it can be fun and ultimately should be fun, but not to the exclusion of doing what is necessary to give the learner a foundation upon which they can build.

As a beginner, resource overload and spreading one's self too thin between resources is a major reason for not progressing. That's why in my multi-track approach post, I recommend two complimentary courses:
1) A traditional textbook with audio course
2) A complimentary course such as Pimsleur; DLI/FSI Headstart; a phrasebook with audio; etc.
(An alternative to Pimsleur for you in Spanish could be the Destinos video course, but it is not portable like Pimsleur. Don't worry about the supplemental course materials, as long as you are using a primary course alongside it.)

In this way, the courses compliment each other and fill in gaps, that they each have to a large extent, with the other course. Keep in mind that even the best courses will not teach you all the language. That's why, after a decent base is achieved, reading, writing, audio/video, and speaking are so helpful.

Specifically, in your case, despite your declared preference as a "visual learner", I recommend this two complimentary course method. You will get your visual word plus audio from the traditional course-book plus audio. For the other complimentary course, if you find yourself continuing to struggle with Pimsleur (hopefully you aren't relying on it as your main course), drop it and pick up something else to teach you basic conversation. Pimsleur's advantage over other courses is that by doing it as the publisher's recommend, it can help to make the language more embedded in your mind. Eventually, if you want to speak Spanish, be able to decode what you are hearing on media (without resorting to subtitles or transcripts) you will have to be able to deal with audio without transcripts. Doing all the levels of Pimsleur in itself won't make you able to do this. Listening takes more work than this, but it is a good start.

Ultimately, at the end of the day, we all have to find what is right for us as beginners. We may go through many resources to find what works for us best. Just don't confuse what works best with what is easiest. We must be challenged in order to learn a language. Being frustrated and aggravated are a part of language-learning. We just don't talk about it as much as we do the fun and the success. Monolingual beginners have a tough time of learning a language because they have to learn how to learn alongside learning the actual mechanics of a second language. A learner does NOT have to be perfect!!!. Even the publishers of the Pimsleur courses don't recommend that every lesson be mastered perfectly.

So try to avoid the prime mistakes monolingual beginners often make. Limit yourself to a couple of resources- don't flit about youtube or the internet in general like a hummingbird from flower to flower- it won't work. Don't give up when the going gets hard. Keep at it. That's persistence. Do something in the language everyday for a long stretch. Try to actually finish a course... or at least most of it. Oh yeah, and don't think it isn't work, because it is. You have to make it happen! The only time I haven't done that, I have failed. That's where I am right now in Catalan. I can read and have read novels, watch tv shows, listen, but I can't speak it yet or write it because I haven't wanted to do the hard work yet. I can, but after three Romance languages already, I just haven't wanted to do it... and the reult is what it is. So, that's what I'm talking about by doing what is easiest and most fun instead of what must be done in order to really learn a language. That's why Catalan isn't in my speaks column, yet. Hang in there! ¡Suerte!

[Decidida]

In my opinion, they are trying to train listening skills and to gradually get you used to some uncertainty which is an important skill to gain.

I know listening skills are a weakness. I know I must work harder at listening, instead of avoiding it. It did not occur to me that the curriculum might actually be trying to teach me to listen.

I wonder if there is a way to work on listening skills in general, maybe even in our native languages.

[Decidida]

Just don't confuse what works best with what is easiest.

Absolutely true!

I need to scaffold my way towards what is hardest, but the hardest things are often the things that I need to give the most attention. Often they are hard because I suck at them, not because they suck. The hardest things are my end goals. I suck at listening in any language, therefore I need to work hardest on listening skills.

don't flit about youtube or the internet in general like a hummingbird from flower to flower

LOL. Yup. I get so annoyed with myself when I realize that I went online for a good reason, but got distracted by videos. One of the reasons that I am so attracted to Pimseur right now is the accountability and predictability and it is OFFLINE. The lessons are all exactly 30 minutes and I have a time carved out where a 30 minute all-audio lesson fits perfectly. I am trying to be very systematic about what I use. Tech problems or unexpected issues sometimes do arise and are legitimate excuses for curriculum hopping, but ... yeah, back to the first part I quoted, easiest is not always the best.

I have a library card that pays for Gale courses that have twice weekly lessons with quizzes and a final at the end. I took the medical Spanish course, even though I am not interested in the medical words, just for the accountability. I am trying to keep my youtube video watching restricted to the topics covered that week, except for videos of people reading bilingual children's books.

I had been drilling vocabulary in the Drops app for 10 minutes a day, but lost my steak a few days ago when I really buckled down to take notes in the Pimseur, and the Gale course scheduled a heavy chapter on verbs. I am wondering if I should drop that for now and streamline. I need to finish some things.

I may hang up a picture of a humming bird on my wall, with a big X on it. LOL.

[kelvin921019]

I have done 2 months of Pimsleur when I start doing spanish (castillian)

I copied the new sentences / vocabularies onto a piece of paper (and look up their spelling on Spanishdict) whenever I hear something "new". But I don't copy those structures / vocabularies which are more or less a combination of sentences which I have already copied down. I think every lesson I will get 15 - 20 more entries.

And one more thing, I copy them down so that I can better visualize the sentence in my mind. Because I was doing 1 lesson (twice) per day, I don't revise on those sentences.