Re: Persian (Farsi, Dari, Tajik) Resources (version 2.01)

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Re: Persian (Farsi, Dari, Tajik) Resources (version 2.01)

Postby rdearman » Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:24 pm

I am looking for an owner for this thread. If you want to manage and update this first post for this language, let me know.

On the HTLAL site is the list Speakeasy created, however, because I cannot edit those links, and the URL embedded into the message can't be copied, I'm just linking to the site which is PAINFULLY SLOW and I had forgotten just how bad it was to use.
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=41257&get=last
Another HTLAL List: http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4088

[Easy Persian] (http://www.easypersian.com)

[Persian Language Online] (http://www.persianlanguageonline.com)

[Chai and Conversation] (http://www.chaiandconversation.com)

[Persian Dee] (http://www.persiandee.com/)

[Utexas guide (special note on the grammar section, a lot of fantastic stuff there] (http://sites.la.utexas.edu/persian_online_resources/)

[Literally just a pdf of a book] (http://blaustein.eps.jhu.edu/~afuller/b ... rammer.pdf)

[Another pdf, this time on handwriting] (http://www.angelfire.com/rnb/bashiri/Le ... riting.pdf)

[Steingass dictionary (adapted from the written version which was made in the late 19th century, dated but useful)] (http://dsal.uchicago.edu/dictionaries/steingass/)

[Farsidic.com (surprisingly good)] (http://www.farsidic.com/en/Lang/EnFa)

Persian of Iran Today, a textbook with audio and video from the University of Texas at Austin.

https://www.jahanshiri.ir/
http://www.persiandee.com/
http://www.farsidic.com/en/Lang/EnFa
https://persianlanguageonline.com/courses/beginner/
https://www.youtube.com/c/PersianLearning
http://www.persiandee.com/
https://farsi.school/library/series/cafe-denj
Last edited by Anonymous on Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Persian (Farsi, Dari, Tajik) Resources (version 2.01)

Postby eido » Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:39 am

I have no actual comment about the content of your newly refurbished compilation of resources, @Speakeasy, but rather one about cosmetics. As of right now, in the first post as I'm viewing it on my Windows 10 enabled HP through Google Chrome, the paragraphs are riddled with unicode symbols (little black diamonds with white question marks inside them) telling me my computer can't view whatever actual marking has been put there. I assume some are smart quotes--in which case, I might not have turned on the feature that allows my computer to render those properly. But for the lazy or techno-stupid, I'd recommend checking the instances in which those symbols appear so people can have a better--and in some cases, more sensical--reading experience. The attached image depicts some of those misfires, but not all of them.
unicodeerror1.JPG
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Re: Persian (Farsi, Dari, Tajik) Resources (version 2.01)

Postby Speakeasy » Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:14 am

Hello, eido. Thank you for your observations: my, what big eyes you have, Grandmother! There is no doubt that the odd characters in the above text (�) cause a little eye-strain. If you were to consult the file on the HTLAL, you would notice that they're present in the original text as well.

Persian (Farsi) overview - HTLAL - February 2005
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=69

When I was preparing this presentation, I had given the thought to correcting the odd characters prior to posting. Whereas some of them might be punctuation marks that the HTLAL/LLORG platforms do not recognize, as Prof. Arguelle also included what-I-interpret-to-be transliterated Persian text, it is not clear to me whether the original text was correct or incorrect in all cases. So then, not wishing to inject more confusion, I simply quoted the text as it appears on the HTLAL. Goiing further, there is a principle at play here: when quoting texts, generally speaking, one should present them "warts 'n all!" One could place the abbreviation "sic" to indicate that the person preparing the quote was aware of the errors, but inserting it throughout the original text would render the latter unreadable.

Now then, you can, if you wish, prepare your own version and submit it for review. All you need to do is to QUOTE the text, copy/paste it into your word-processor, correct it as you see fit, and submit it here for review and comment by the assembled masses. Actually, I seriously doubt that anyone would take the time to read and suggest amendments to your corrected version. Assuming that your version would be a significant improvement over Prof. Arguelle's original, I would then be in a position to copy/paste it into the first section of this thread, replacing the original. However, as you can appreciate, doing so would be an infringement on the guiding principle of quoting "warts 'n all." While I might yield in this case, out of respect for the professor, I would review your corrected version carefully before posting a revised version of his original text: remember, he was satisfied with it and apparently so were the members of the HTLAL.

EDITED:
Typos.
Last edited by Speakeasy on Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Persian (Farsi, Dari, Tajik) Resources (version 2.01)

Postby eido » Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:20 am

I of course wouldn't edit any of the content, but stylistic elements.

Naturally, though, I could just be the one with a desire for aesthetic cohesion and outward accord, and so strong is this desire that it does not parallel or match anyone else's. They probably value substance over style, as seems to our good professor.

I shan't intrude again, in that case.
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Re: Persian (Farsi, Dari, Tajik) Resources (version 2.01)

Postby Speakeasy » Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:32 am

One of the problems suffered by the highly-revered is that, out of deep respect for these lofty individuals and out of fear of giving offence, few people have the temerity of pointing out their errors to them whereas, in fact, they lofty one's might very well respond: "Oh, did I do that? Thank you, thank you very much, I'll issue a correction and an apology immediately!"

Of course, there is also the fear that the "alternate ending" to the morality tale "The Emperor's New Clothes" might come into play: the "revered one" had his courtiers and the little kid with the big mouth publicly executed. :mrgreen:

Seriously, should you wish to submit a more aesthetically pleasing version of Prof. Arguelle's original text, please feel free to do so. He is/was more than capable of pausing to appreciate the details, not to mention the natural beauty of things.
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Re: Persian (Farsi, Dari, Tajik) Resources (version 2.01)

Postby jonm » Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:15 am

Somewhere, and I honestly can't remember where, I came across an archive of the HTLAL threads in which Professor Arguelles participated under the username Ardaschir. Just checked, and most of the problematic characters look normal in the archived copy. The formatting of the Cyrillic at the end of the second-to-last paragraph is still a little messy. Here's a copy-paste from that archive without any editing from me.

EDIT: Speakeasy has incorporated the text into the first post of the thread, so no need for it here as well.
Last edited by jonm on Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Persian (Farsi, Dari, Tajik) Resources (version 2.01)

Postby Speakeasy » Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:28 am

jonm wrote:Somewhere, and I honestly can't remember where, I came across an archive of the HTLAL threads in which Professor Arguelles participated under the username Ardaschir. Just checked, and most of the problematic characters look normal in the archived copy. The formatting of the Cyrillic at the end of the second-to-last paragraph is still a little messy. Here's a copy-paste from that archive without any editing from me...
jonm, many thanks for the reformatted text! I have inserted the cleaner copy above.

eido, thank you, once again, for providing the impetus for this correction.
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Re: Persian (Farsi, Dari, Tajik) Resources (version 2.01)

Postby jonm » Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:58 am

Speakeasy wrote:jonm, many thanks for the reformatted text! I have inserted the cleaner copy above.

You're welcome, Speakeasy, and more importantly, thank you for researching and writing up these incredibly helpful and comprehensive resources posts!
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Re: Persian (Farsi, Dari, Tajik) Resources (version 2.01)

Postby David1917 » Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:25 am

I floated the idea of compiling a post like this myself earlier this year when I was surveying several Persian courses to take part in a 6WC. I found that so many Persian courses do one of two things that are completely detrimental to the learner:

1) Present only in transliteration. This is true of the first two Colloquial Persian offerings (Elwell-Sutton & Moshiri), but not true of the third, by Rafiee. Unfortunately, his uses an arguably worse approach...
2) Present in Persian script, but reflecting certain colloquial pronunciation. It is the equivalent of teaching English with "don'tcha" "wouldja" "gonna" etc. Yes, some people revert to these spellings in casual writing; or as a literary device to portray how someone spoke. In spoken Persian, some endings will get dropped and "-ast" might just be "-eh." This would be a helpful footnote (as it is in a good work like Mace's Teach Yourself Modern Persian,) but in others like the newest Colloquial, it predominates. I don't know if bigwig publishers think they're helping people learn a "scary hard" language by doing this, but it would only complicate matters if you want to actually know Persian. Even the Assimil course does this in its lessons on colloquial pronunciation.

It was after coming across so many stumbling blocks that I abandoned any desire to look further at more courses and just focus on Assimil, Mace's TYS, and a decent course from a Russian base. I hope to just get going on readers and native media now since Persian grammar is relatively simple and the more challenging aspect is acquiring a decent vocabulary/cultural knowledge.
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Re: Persian (Farsi, Dari, Tajik) Resources (version 2.01)

Postby Speakeasy » Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:20 am

David1917, thank you for your, as always, keen observations. I appreciate your generalized disappointment over the limitations of many the materials which are available for the study of Persian.

Although it appears that I wasted my time in preparing the above lists of resources, with a view to reassuring you, I would point out that I took the time to read through the publishers’ descriptions where these were available as well as all of the comments posted by Amazon Customers, I viewed all of the Amazon “Look Inside” previews, I conducted a visual survey of all of the PDFs of the legacy materials, I made a quick tour of the online courses, and I read through every one of the HTLAL and LLORG discussion threads for which I provided the links above. I came to the conclusion that there are many high-quality materials which would meet the needs of the average, albeit astute and self-motivated, independent language learner.

I regret that there seems to be so little amongst the items listed above which might appeal to a particularly serious and exacting student such as yourself. Nevertheless, beyond your own short list, are you certain that there is absolutely nothing in the offerings above which you might recommend to other members of the forum?

EDITED
Typos! I'm going kill the little "$&*/£*$"W!!!
Tinkering.
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