Mongolian Resources

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Speakeasy
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Mongolian Resources

Postby Speakeasy » Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:44 am

How We (I) Got Here
No, I have not suddenly developed an interest in studying Mongolian. Rather, I was blundering around the internet searching for vintage language-learning materials, as usual, and came across an offer on eBay.FR for an introductory course in Mongolian. The visual appearance of the course manual and the fact that the package included 9 audio cassettes (which represents a significant amount of audio recordings for a less-frequently-studied language) led me to believe, momentarily, that this might a “lost” FSI Mongolian Basic course. Well, after a bit of checking, it turned out to be something else (but just as good as a vintage FSI course). Subsequently, during my searches for additional materials and for any information on Mongolian which might be hosted on the HTLAL and LLORG, of which there was surprisingly little, and being unable to locate a Mongolian Profile (Chung, where art thou?), I decided to … hesitantly, because The Great Chung just might have published something on this language after all … cobble together a list of resources for Mongolian. That’s how we (I) got here.

Languages of Mongolia
Mongolian languages, one of three subfamilies of the Altaic language family. The Mongolian languages are spoken in Mongolia and adjacent parts of east-central Asia. Their subclassification is controversial, and no one scheme has won universal approval. The central Mongolian languages are usually divided into a western group, consisting of the closely related Oirat (spoken in Mongolia and in the Xinjiang region of China) and Kalmyk (Russia), and an eastern group, consisting of the closely related Buryat (Russia) and Mongol (Mongolia and China) languages. Outlying languages—Moghol (spoken in Afghanistan), Daur (Inner Mongolia, China), Yellow Uighur (Gansu province, China), and the related groups of Monguor (Tu), Dongxiang, and Bao’an (Bonan), which are spoken on the border between the provinces of Gansu and Qinghai—exhibit archaic features. All of the central, but none of the outlying, languages have written forms. – Source: Britanica.com

Mongolian Language
The Mongolian language is the official language of Mongolia and both the most widely-spoken and best-known member of the Mongolic language family. The number of speakers across all its dialects may be 5.2 million, including the vast majority of the residents of Mongolia and many of the Mongolian residents of the Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region.[1] In Mongolia, the Khalkha dialect, written in Cyrillic (and at times in Latin for social networking), is predominant, while in Inner Mongolia, the language is dialectally more diverse and is written in the traditional Mongolian script. In the discussion of grammar to follow, the variety of Mongolian treated is Standard Khalkha Mongolian (i.e., the standard written language as formalized in the writing conventions and in the school grammar), but much of what is to be said is also valid for vernacular (spoken) Khalkha and for other Mongolian dialects, especially Chakhar. – Source: Wikipedia

Mongolian languages (Mongolic languages) - Britanica.com
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Mongolian-languages

Mongolian Language - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolian_language

Mongolian Resources – LEGACY and CURRENT
In my searches for resources supporting the study and practice of the Mongolian language, I visited the habitual sources: Yojik, Live Lingua, ERIC, DLIFLC, NFLC, Amazon, AbeBooks, eBay, Indiana University Recorded Materials Archive, and the like. While there are a few solid materials, these are now somewhat dated. Excluded from the list below are the usual phrase books, language guides, and the like either printed or online. In addition, I have not listed grammars, dictionaries, or Mongolian editions of the Bible.

What is NOT Available
The following usually reliable sources yielded mostly no materials for study:
DLI Mongolian Basic – NONE
DLI Mongolian Headstart2 – NONE
DLI Mongolian GLOSS reading & listening files – NONE
DLI Mongolian Language Survival Kit – AVAILABLE (but hardly worth the detour)
ERIC Mongolian – YES, BUT ... a few interesting readers are listed but they are not downloadable
FSI Mongolian Basic – NONE
NFLC Mongolian reading & listening files – NONE

What IS Available
Not much, really ...

Assimil Le Mongol - NONE
Listed should anyone pose the question. I have to admit to being somewhat surprised that this highly-respected publisher of courses and guides to the less-frequently-studied languages does not yet have anything on Mongolian in their very impressive catalogue.

Basic Course in Mongolian (Uralic and Altaic) (1968) 226 pages, by John G. Hangin – Routledge (Taylor & Francis)
Intermediate Mongolian: A Textbook for Modern Mongolian (Uralic and Altaic) (1973) 394 pages, by John G. Hangin – Routledge (Taylor & Francis)
This two-part course in Mongolian, authored by one of the world’s foremost experts in the subject, is the premier work on the subject for English speakers. As these courses were developed at a time when the “audio-lingual method” of language instruction enjoyed popular support by American academics, it is not surprising that the “Look Inside” views of the reprinted versions of the course manuals recall the FSI Basic course manuals of the same period (dialogues, basic sentences, exercises, notes). The now-defunct Audio-Forum once published their own edition of the Basic course. The AUDIO RECORDINGS for the Basic Course are freely-available via the Indiana University CeLT Recorded Materials Archive website (see link below). I have been unable to locate a source of the audio recordings for the Intermediate Course. I would place these two courses on my own A-List of resources.
https://www.amazon.com/Basic-Course-Mongolian-Uralic-Altaic/dp/0700708731
https://www.amazon.com/Intermediate-Mongolian-Uralic-Altaic-Hangin/dp/0700709258/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Intermediate+Mongolian+A+Textbook+for+Modern+Mongolian&qid=1567210531&s=gateway&sr=8-1
http://www.iu.edu/~celtie/mongolian_archive.html

Modern Mongolian A Course-Book (1st ed., 2004) 272 pages, by John Gaunt - Routledge (Taylor & Francis)
A more contemporary work than the two-part series by John G. Hangin, this course would appear to be a solid introduction to the basics of the Mongolian language. Likely conceived for use in a classroom setting. Although not specifically mentioned in the description of this book on Amazon, according to one reviewer, ONE AUDIO CASSETTE exists to accompany this textbook. Reviews are rather mixed and, despite the positive comments, I would tend to place this work on my B-List of resources.
https://www.amazon.com/Modern-Mongolian-Course-Book-John-Gaunt/dp/0700713263/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2KKBDPT49BKEM&keywords=mongolian+language&qid=1567213877&s=gateway&sprefix=mongolian+language%2Caps%2C156&sr=8-1

Mongol Reader [Indiana University Publications, Uralic and Altaic Series, vol. 29] by Austin, Hangin, Onon
I have no information on this work other than the title, the list of contributors, the fact that it is now out-of-print (but that copies are still available on the internet) and that the AUDIO RECORDINGS are hosted on the Indiana University CeLT Recorded Materials Archive website (see link below). Still, I would place this on my A-List of resources.
https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=austin%20william%20john%20hangin%20peter&tn=mongol%20reader&cm_sp=mbc-_-ats-_-all
http://www.iu.edu/~celtie/mongolian_archive.html
http://www.iu.edu/~celtie/mongolian_archive.html

Mongolian Reading & Listening Modules -- Indiana University
I stumbled upon this link to what-appears-to-be a controlled-access portal at Indiana University for practising Mongolian . My hunch is that access is limited to registered students, to university staff, and to members of the faculty. I would imagine that a request for access, posted on the Dark Web along with the offer of few bitcoins might gain you access (rdearman: sarcasm alert!).
http://www.indiana.edu/~celcar/intermediate/mongolinter.html

Parlons Mongol (1997) 416 pages, by Jacques Legrand - Editions L'Harmattan
This work, by the noted French Mongolist, Jacques Legrand (avec remerciements à zenmonkey!), introduces not only the basics of the Mongolian language, but also treats this peoples's culture and restores their place in history. AUDIO RECORDINGS, in CD format, are available for separate purchase. Jacques Legrand also authored a dictionary and other works (see link to AbeBooks). The few Customer Reviews on Amazon.FR, which are as a eloquent as they are positive, would convince me to place this work on my own A-List of resources.
https://www.amazon.fr/Parlons-mongol-Jacques-Legrand/dp/2738456073/ref=sr_1_5?__mk_fr_FR=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&keywords=mongol%2C+langue&qid=1567252454&s=gateway&sr=8-5
https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=Jacques%20Legrand&bi=0&bx=off&cm_sp=SearchF-_-Advtab1-_-Results&ds=50&kn=mongol&recentlyadded=all&sortby=7&sts=t

Peace Corps Mongolian
The Yojik website hosts a collection of vintage Peace Corps courses, phrase books, et cetera for the study of Mongolian, ONE of which is accompanied by AUDIO RECORDINGS. In addition, the Indiana University CeLT Recorded Materials Archive hosts the audio recordings for one of these works AND at least one of the Peace Corps manuals is available via the U.S. Government’s ERIC website. I would tend to place these materials on my B-List of resources.
https://yojik.eu/languages/PeaceCorps/Mongolian.html

Routledge Colloquial Mongolian (1st ed. 2015) 342 pages, by Jantsangiyn Bat-Ireedui and Alan J K Sanders - Routledge (Taylor & Francis)
Generally speaking, the Routledge “Colloquial” courses are designed to meet the basic CEFR A0 communication needs of a short-term visitor to a region where the target language is spoken. The courses include an introduction to the basics of the L2’s structure. At times, and one never knows in advance of purchasing one of these courses, they do go in slightly greater depth. These courses are accompanied by approximately 2 hours of AUDIO RECORDINGS which are now freely-available via the Routledge website (see link below). In the case of this course, the Customer Reviews on Amazon.COM and Amazon.CO.UK are surprisingly mixed and I would recommend that the serious student of this language read through them.
https://www.amazon.com/Colloquial-Mongolian-Complete-Course-Beginners/dp/1138950130/ref=sr_1_3?crid=2KKBDPT49BKEM&keywords=mongolian+language&qid=1567212012&s=gateway&sprefix=mongolian+language%2Caps%2C156&sr=8-3
https://routledgetextbooks.com/textbooks/colloquial/default.php#languages

Teach Yourself Mongolian - NONE
Listed should anyone pose the question. The “Teach Yourself” series of introductory-level language courses enjoys popular support amongst many members of the HTLAL and the LLORG and often receives favourable Customer Reviews on Amazon. Apparently, the publisher of this series did not view the market potential for a Mongolian course sufficiently attractive to invest in such a venture.

Them’s the Berries!
Yah, I know, not much out there, is there? If I were trying to learn Mongolian, I would use the two-part series by John G. Hangin and then try to chase down some native materials. And you?

ADDENDUM: ADDITIONAL RESOURCES

1. Please refer to comments from Chung, Daristani and Longinus, below, wherein they have offered some very interesting and useful recommendations for alternate resources for the study of Mongolian.

2. Please note carefully: Consulting the listings above, without reading the subsequent comments from other members, will yield an incomplete picture of the materials available for the study of Mongolian and will deprive the reader of much-appreciated assessments of these, and of other, materials.

EDITED:
Tinkering.
Addition of "Mongol Reader" to the list.
Addition of "Parlons Mongol" to the list.
Formatting, tinkering (OCD).
Addendum.
Last edited by Speakeasy on Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:13 pm, edited 14 times in total.
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zenmonkey
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Re: Mongolian Resources

Postby zenmonkey » Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:34 am

There is also material in French by Jacques Legrand from INALCO

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_L ... (Mongolist)

I'm going to guess that there is some selection of Russian-Mongolian material but I don't know anything about that.
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Speakeasy
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Re: Mongolian Resources

Postby Speakeasy » Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:13 pm

Merci, zenmonkey! It would appear that Jacques Legrand is a highly-respected expert in the field. I have inserted his "Parlons Mongol" (much appreciated by the Amazon.FR reviewers) to the list of resources above, along with a link to AbeBooks which lists his works.

EDITED:
Erreurs de frappe.
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Chung
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Re: Mongolian Resources

Postby Chung » Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:02 am

If anyone in the English-speaking world (particularly in the USA) would like to learn Mongolian, the American Center of Mongolian Studies (part of the Center for East Asian Studies at University of Pennsylvania) might be of use. It runs summer classes for Mongolian in Mongolia (I think that you need to be a student at UPenn but the classes aren't cheap) and also has a bookstore where you can order fairly rare textbooks and reference material for Mongolian. The site also used to host an extensive series of free online lessons in Mongolian (at least 20 sections if I remember correctly) covering material up to what the ACMS deemed intermediate (A2? B1?) but they've been gone for several years already. A shame.

Of the rarer books, I do have the first volume of the 3-part series Сайн Байна уу? and its accompanying audio. All of the audio is available at Indiana University's CELT portal but you need to be a registered student there. I remember a time when a lot more audio on the archive was available to the public even if that audio was part of a book that was (is) still under copyright. Anyway, the book itself is meant for an English-speaking learner attending Mongolian classes although the appendices have transcripts and translations of the dialogues and the answer key covers about half of the exercises in each chapter. It could be used by a fairly motivated independent learner although I think that it should be supplemented with another course, or even better, used with the help of a Mongolian tutor/friend.

On the "Colloquial" series in general, I think that Speakeasy is unduly harsh by considering the series as meant to provide the user with CEFR A0 competency of the target language. That's too damned low and, with all due respect, wrong. A lot of the material in the second half of a regular "Colloquial" language course would be covered by students at A2 if not B1; it'd be beyond what someone at A1 (let alone A0) would be expected to know. After having used several of the books myself (and also having "Colloquial Mongolian" on the shelf), I've gathered that most are similar to most volumes of the "Complete" series from "Teach Yourself" which are honestly assessed as taking the learner up to CEFR A2 (in other words, most users can move on to struggle with a textbook advertised for users starting at B1(.1)) in their German adaptations/translations published by Cornelsen. The "Teach Yourself" books are, however, dishonestly assessed as taking you up to B2 in their English "Complete" editions (that's just false advertising as there's no way that anyone having just finished only a Teach Yourself language book will then have a fighting chance using a textbook targeted at users with competency at B2 let alone at C1).

There are a few Mongolian resources in Russian (look up монгольский язык, учебник монгольского языка and similar) but like what we can get in English, they vary from stuff issued during the Cold War (they're published in cities followed by CCCP (USSR)) to stuff issued this century although they're all meant for classroom instruction. The variety of material is limited.
Last edited by Chung on Sun Sep 01, 2019 7:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Speakeasy
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Re: Mongolian Resources

Postby Speakeasy » Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:23 am

Thank you Chung, for your recommendations concerning alternate resources for the study of Mongolian. As I implied in my introductory comments [How We (I) Got Here], I strongly suspected that you might have something very valuable to contribute on the subject, and so you did!

I agree with your assessment of the Teach Yourself language courses. In my opinion, they do not have the potential for taking even a gifted student to level beyond the CEFR A1 level and they might even not help the average person reach this level. They're not bad, they're simply (too often) over-rated.

Now then, as to my being “unduly harsh … wrong” in my assessment of the Routledge Colloquial courses, it is quite clear that we hold opposing points of view. Mine are based primarily on my study of the Colloquial German course, which I reiterate would take the student no higher than CEFR A0. Although this course does introduce the user to same very basic notions of German grammar, in the final analysis, it is not much better than a phrase book. Nevertheless, I freely admit that some of the Colloquial courses go further (as I remarked in my comments on the Colloquial Mongolian course, above). Examples are: Colloquial Dutch and Colloquial Polish, both of which I completed and both of which I have previously assessed as having the potential of taking the student somewhere within the CEFR A1+ zone; however, I have my doubts about CEFR A2.

In all cases, I believe that, were someone having no previous knowledge of a given foreign language (and were such a person to be bereft of a massive vocabulary of cognates upon which he/she could rely to ease his/her acquisition of the new language) to embark on a study programme based solely on a Colloquial course, without recourse to any other language resources or any other means of contact with the target language whatsoever, such a person would be insufficiently prepared to sit a genuine CEFR A2 examination and he/she would most certainly not be prepared to sit a B1 examination. Should you wish to continue to debate the virtues and vices of the Colloquial series, I respectfully invite you to join me at the address below:

Routledge's Colloquial series
https://forum.language-learners.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4884
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Re: Mongolian Resources

Postby Daristani » Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:56 pm

1) Another useful learning source for Mongolian is the two-volume "Colloquial Mongolian: An Introductory Intensive Course" by Jugderiin Lubsangdorji and Jaroslav Vacek, published in 2004 by Charles University in Prague, which I think is based on an earlier Czech original. Copies of the physical book seem to be exceedingly scarce, but PDFs have been floating around the internet for several years.

I don't think there was ever any audio produced for this, but I recall seeing someone mention (perhaps on the old HTLAL forum?) that it was being used in a university course, thus presumably attesting to its quality.

2) Indiana University also published a textbook entitled "Modern Mongolian: A Primer and Reader" by James E. Bosson in 1964, which again is pretty rare these days but is available in PDF form. Again, no audio as far as I'm aware.

3) Indiana's "Mongol Reader" cited by Speakeasy above actually included a set of graded lessons explaining the basic grammar, accompanied by reading selections, so it could be used ab initio to develop a reading ability in the language.

4) I share Chung's recollection that the Indiana language lab at one time had a broader selection of audio available to the public than now. My computer seems to have the audio for the Basic Course, the Mongol Reader, and John Hangin's "Intermediate Mongolian" (a follow-on to the basic course cited above, but it's actually more of a reader with grammatical notes than the intermediate textbook it's labeled as). I think I likely obtained all of these back when the university website was less restrictive.

5) Glossika has a Mongolian course.

6) There's "An Elementary Mongolian Grammar" by Daniel Elliott, T. Uranchimeg, and P. Yandii, available on Amazon; it's a long reference grammar, arranged in an extended outline form, and so definitely not a textbook.

7) "Mongolian Grammar", by Rita Kullmann and D. Tserenpil, is a detailed reference grammar published in Mongolia that has the virtue of showing everything in both Cyrillic and also the traditional Mongolian script. Again, it's a pure reference grammar, and not a textbook.
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Cavesa
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Re: Mongolian Resources

Postby Cavesa » Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:20 pm

Daristani wrote:1) Another useful learning source for Mongolian is the two-volume "Colloquial Mongolian: An Introductory Intensive Course" by Jugderiin Lubsangdorji and Jaroslav Vacek, published in 2004 by Charles University in Prague, which I think is based on an earlier Czech original. Copies of the physical book seem to be exceedingly scarce, but PDFs have been floating around the internet for several years.

I don't think there was ever any audio produced for this, but I recall seeing someone mention (perhaps on the old HTLAL forum?) that it was being used in a university course, thus presumably attesting to its quality.


I've seen this! A physical copy in a normal big bookstore. I remember, because it falsely raised my hopes of finding the Routledge Colloquial courses for my target languages :-D. It was based in English, I am not sure there has ever been a Czech original (as far as I know, the students of the rarer languages at Charles University are expected to know at least one or two huge languages, so they might just be using the English version.

So, it exists, and might not bet that impossible to find.

Hmm... what am I doing on a thread about Mongolian?
At least I can recommend a bit of music: The Hu might be worth your attention, Mongolian learners.
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Re: Mongolian Resources

Postby Daristani » Sun Sep 01, 2019 7:24 pm

Welcome to Mongolia, Cavesa!

Based on your comment, I wondered where I'd gotten the idea of an original Czech version, so I looked at the PDF of the English version and saw that the Czech original had been published back in 1979. Unless there was a craze for Mongolian culture in Czechoslovakia in those days, I suspect it may well have been a pretty small print run...

I assume this probably derived to some extent from the "socialist solidarity" prevailing at the time. In East Germany, a decade earlier, the VEB Verlag Enzyklopaedie in Leipzig had published a "Lehrbuch der mongolischen Sprache" by Hans-Peter Vietze. VEB also published a "Woerterbuch Mongolisch Deutsch", by Vietze and others, in 1988. (I think there was a German-Mongolian version as well, but I don't have it.) VEB also issued a "Chrestomathie der mongolischen Literatur des 20. Jahrhunderts" by Erika Taube in 1972.
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Cavesa
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Re: Mongolian Resources

Postby Cavesa » Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:38 pm

Thanks for the warm welcome.

The hyperold Czech version makes sense, but I should perhaps add the historical not to my log, to not clutter this thread.

I still recommend the Hu, but there must be surely more good bands. The Hu is actually internationally known these days, musically interesting, and with Mongolian lyrics of course.
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Re: Mongolian Resources

Postby Random Review » Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:07 pm

FWIW I think CEFR level achieved, CEFR levels being communicative, is a more useful metric when assessing intermediate or advanced courses. Without naming any names, I can think of several really good and worthwhile beginner's courses that don't take you beyond A0, but empower you to make rapid progress thereafter and several that rush you through to a bad A2 and leave you in severe danger of plateauing there forever.

Especially with a difficult language like Mongolian, the attained CEFR level would not be a major consideration for me when choosing a beginner's course. Genuinely.

From B1 onward, they would. Maybe that's just me.
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