Integrationskurs VS Online courses(SmarterGerman,FluentU,etc)

[twodiverse]

Hi, this is my first post,so, thank you for taking the time, and I do not want to make it long so, let´s get to it:

I am moving to Berlin this Friday(31 May) and I was wondering if I should do the integrationskurs or maybe online options may be better options.

My goal is to learn the fastest so Course + Socializing I believe is the best way to do that.

Integrationskurs is 120€/month roughly and I believe those are the prices of the most expensive ones so it is not an obvious choice neither for money or quality.

So, should I sigh up for the integrationskurs or go with one online? I am staying from May 31 to 15 September

Any advice would be appreciated

Thank you again, José

[Speakeasy]

Hello, twodiverse, welcome to the forum! An answer to your questions will likely require an exchange of information and some discussion.

Your Project
This is what I understand of your starting point:
• You are moving to Berlin in three days for the express purpose of improving your German.
• You will be staying in Berlin for 3-1/2 months.
• Your present knowledge of German is in the CEFR A1-A2 range.
• You want to combine your German studies with socializing.
• You have not yet arranged for classroom instruction, purchased any course materials, or subscribed to an online service.
• You appear to be sensitive to the cost of such courses/materials (120€/month divided by 20 working days = 6€/day)
• You are considering using “Integrationskurs” but seem to have doubts as to its quality.
• You are also considering the “SmarterGerman” online course, the “FluentU” pay-for-view video library, or other online courses.

Slow Down?
My advice (and I am not being flippant) would be that you should either postpone your trip so that you can develop a solid plan of study or consider your venture as an extended vacation during which you might profit (to a highly variable extent) from the opportunity of being in Berlin to improve your spoken German. As this is clearly out-of-the-question, let’s begin the discussion …

Soft Learning
I assume that you have arranged for accommodations. Is this in some sort of Youth Hostel, Pension, or other arrangement such as staying with a family which will provide you with significant opportunities for practicing your German? You want to expand your opportunities for learning by socializing. Do you already have friends and acquaintances in Berlin who have the time and the inclination to helping you with your German or do you plan on developing new social contacts and will be relying on your social skills (as well as your limited, but developing, linguistic skills) to coax them into acting as your private, unpaid but willing tutors? There is no doubt that actually talking with the local population will improve your speaking skills. However, the success of this part of your plan will depend largely on your ability at coaxing the locals into acting as your teachers. Should these people develop the impression that you are offering a similitude of friendship only to further your own personal designs, there is chance that they might not be very cooperative.

Hard Learning
I know nothing of the “Integrationskurs” that you are considering and my searches of the internet turned up too many options for me to investigate. Could you please provide a link to this service (assuming that they have a website) or otherwise describe the service? If this is just your average online language course, with no individual instruction, then 120€/month is fairly expensive. If, on the other, the service offers several hours per day of (genuinely) individualized instruction, then 6€/day might be quite reasonable.

I assume that you already know that “FluentU” is a pay-for-view collection of videos which are offered as “supplemental materials” for language learning. That is, they are not really a course of instruction, per se. Yes, they do offer basic instructional materials; however, they are not the best and they are rather limited in scope. In my opinion, you would be better served by using Deutche Welle’s free online German courses or by purchasing a conventional course (book + audio recordings).

As you know, “SmarterGerman” is a pay-for-participation online tutoring service. The instruction is based on the mastering of a rather simple, short novel which is freely-downloadable from the company’s website along with the accompanying audio recordings. The course of instruction includes a regimen of online activities. In my opinion, the this service is rather expensive given the limited content, the real value lies in the “guidance” that the instructor provides to the student (who does all the work). The materials themselves can be substituted (at very low prices) by audio-books and many other well-structured courses of study such as Deutche Welle’s free online German courses. Please refer to the following discussion thread: https://forum.language-learners.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&p=109659&sid=106122503b99d1b19eda35d77e33dbc9#p109659

So far, your plan seems to be based on self-instruction via a number of services. Would you be open to attending structured classes (Goethe Institut, and others) during your extended vacation in Berlin?

EDITED:
Typos.

[Kat]

My goal is to learn the fastest so Course + Socializing I believe is the best way to do that.

Integrationskurs is 120€/month roughly and I believe those are the prices of the most expensive ones so it is not an obvious choice neither for money or quality.

So, should I sigh up for the integrationskurs or go with one online? I am staying from May 31 to 15 September

Any advice would be appreciated.

Hi José,

As far as I know, an Integrationskurs is not (just) a regular language course. It's mainly intended for immigrants. Besides language skills, they also impart information about life and culture in Germany, the German legal system, history etc.

Regarding the price, I don't think you'll find cheaper face-to-face classes. I've checked the website of a random Volkshochschule in Berlin that offers Integrationskurse. It charges 205 EUR for one course level, that is for 100 units of instruction á 45 minutes.

Regular language schools will definitely be more expensive than that. Just to give you a comparison: The Goethe Institut, one of the most renowned and expensive options, currently offers 80 units of instruction + a cultural program (no idea what exactly that entails) for approx. 1,100 EUR. Another private language school in Berlin, which is very popular among foreign university students because of its moderate prices, charges 261 EUR for 80 units of instruction per month.

What is your main goal? Are you coming to Germany in order to learn German? Or do you just want to improve your German while you are in Berlin for other purposes? How many hours per week do you want to spend on formal language learning?

[eido]

I signed up for SmarterGerman and while it's pretty, it's certainly not thorough. I also got an email from the creator the other day because I haven't unsubscribed from the mailing list (which is odd -- wouldn't you think that after I had my money refunded I'd be unsubscribed automatically? No, I guess not), and it said, "Attention All Transgender Learners" or something like that, and in the body of the email it was like, "Haha, gotcha! I was just using that to get your attention." And I was like, "Um, cheap tricks much? Don't use transgender people for that." The creator also seems very full of himself and can be quite short with people if they don't meet his expectations of learning at the pace he would like them to. I remember scrolling through comments on an early video, and someone asked, "Why are some German words capitalized and others not?" and he basically responded, "Why do you think, dipsh*t? What do you notice? Use your brain."

So I wouldn't recommend it.

[Kraut]

I have googled for the guy, he doesn't come across as arrogant, I find him impressive.

Michael Schmitz
https://www.quora.com/profile/Michael-Schmitz-16

------------
Typical mistakes of German learners

https://smartergerman.com/german-langua ... -learners/

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yxyy5wseG9A

B114-The Results-Four Weeks after the German B1 Exam

[eido]

I have googled for the guy, he doesn't come across as arrogant, I find him impressive.

Well, I mean, you're entitled to your opinion but I read what I read and perhaps he expressed himself in a German way in his videos, but it seemed a bit off. I'm not trying to throw accusations around, just state observations.

[twodiverse]

Hello, twodiverse, welcome to the forum! An answer to your questions will likely require an exchange of information and some discussion.

Your Project
This is what I understand of your starting point:
• You are moving to Berlin in three days for the express purpose of improving your German.
• You will be staying in Berlin for 3-1/2 months.
• Your present knowledge of German is in the CEFR A1-A2 range.
• You want to combine your German studies with socializing.
• You have not yet arranged for classroom instruction, purchased any course materials, or subscribed to an online service.
• You appear to be sensitive to the cost of such courses/materials (120€/month divided by 20 working days = 6€/day)
• You are considering using “Integrationskurs” but seem to have doubts as to its quality.
• You are also considering the “SmarterGerman” online course, the “FluentU” pay-for-view video library, or other online courses.

Slow Down?
My advice (and I am not being flippant) would be that you should either postpone your trip so that you can develop a solid plan of study or consider your venture as an extended vacation during which you might profit (to a highly variable extent) from the opportunity of being in Berlin to improve your spoken German. As this is clearly out-of-the-question, let’s begin the discussion …

Soft Learning
I assume that you have arranged for accommodations. Is this in some sort of Youth Hostel, Pension, or other arrangement such as staying with a family which will provide you with significant opportunities for practicing your German? You want to expand your opportunities for learning by socializing. Do you already have friends and acquaintances in Berlin who have the time and the inclination to helping you with your German or do you plan on developing new social contacts and will be relying on your social skills (as well as your limited, but developing, linguistic skills) to coax them into acting as your private, unpaid but willing tutors? There is no doubt that actually talking with the local population will improve your speaking skills. However, the success of this part of your plan will depend largely on your ability at coaxing the locals into acting as your teachers. Should these people develop the impression that you are offering a similitude of friendship only to further your own personal designs, there is chance that they might not be very cooperative.

Hard Learning
I know nothing of the “Integrationskurs” that you are considering and my searches of the internet turned up too many options for me to investigate. Could you please provide a link to this service (assuming that they have a website) or otherwise describe the service? If this is just your average online language course, with no individual instruction, then 120€/month is fairly expensive. If, on the other, the service offers several hours per day of (genuinely) individualized instruction, then 6€/day might be quite reasonable.

I assume that you already know that “FluentU” is a pay-for-view collection of videos which are offered as “supplemental materials” for language learning. That is, they are not really a course of instruction, per se. Yes, they do offer basic instructional materials; however, they are not the best and they are rather limited in scope. In my opinion, you would be better served by using Deutche Welle’s free online German courses or by purchasing a conventional course (book + audio recordings).

As you know, “SmarterGerman” is a pay-for-participation online tutoring service. The instruction is based on the mastering of a rather simple, short novel which is freely-downloadable from the company’s website along with the accompanying audio recordings. The course of instruction includes a regimen of online activities. In my opinion, the this service is rather expensive given the limited content, the real value lies in the “guidance” that the instructor provides to the student (who does all the work). The materials themselves can be substituted (at very low prices) by audio-books and many other well-structured courses of study such as Deutche Welle’s free online German courses. Please refer to the following discussion thread: https://forum.language-learners.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&p=109659&sid=106122503b99d1b19eda35d77e33dbc9#p109659

So far, your plan seems to be based on self-instruction via a number of services. Would you be open to attending structured classes (Goethe Institut, and others) during your extended vacation in Berlin?

EDITED:
Typos.

I will quote this response which is the most complete but I wanna first say thank to each and everyone of you. Didn´t expect this much love from the first post. Thank you

Now, let´s try to make myself clear haha

1. You understood perfectly, I wanna go to Berlin to learn German as a priority but also socialize --> I believe the compliment each other pretty nicely

2. I will start a official course here in Spain in October so I do not have much time to let this go. I gotta do it now, I do not wanna waste money but I do not mind not being 100% efficient with it

3. I do not have neither a house nor any known friends. My plan is to rely in my social skills doing normal life(gym and other hobbies) and social events I will attend.

4. It is basically a course for the refugees and they offer different levels, one of them is intensive and that would be the one I would sign for. This is the one http://www.bamf.de/EN/Willkommen/Deutsc ... -node.html

5. I have not looked in depths each one of the course as that I do not believe would help me a lot because I don´t think I could actually get a graps of the value that each one has.

6. The Goethe one is too expensive in my opinion(not saying is not worth the quality though). Integrationskurse is not online.

The question came because online course have come a long way and I was just wondering whether attending to classes was better than online ones.

[twodiverse]

My goal is to learn the fastest so Course + Socializing I believe is the best way to do that.

Integrationskurs is 120€/month roughly and I believe those are the prices of the most expensive ones so it is not an obvious choice neither for money or quality.

So, should I sigh up for the integrationskurs or go with one online? I am staying from May 31 to 15 September

Any advice would be appreciated.

Hi José,

As far as I know, an Integrationskurs is not (just) a regular language course. It's mainly intended for immigrants. Besides language skills, they also impart information about life and culture in Germany, the German legal system, history etc.

Regarding the price, I don't think you'll find cheaper face-to-face classes. I've checked the website of a random Volkshochschule in Berlin that offers Integrationskurse. It charges 205 EUR for one course level, that is for 100 units of instruction á 45 minutes.

Regular language schools will definitely be more expensive than that. Just to give you a comparison: The Goethe Institut, one of the most renowned and expensive options, currently offers 80 units of instruction + a cultural program (no idea what exactly that entails) for approx. 1,100 EUR. Another private language school in Berlin, which is very popular among foreign university students because of its moderate prices, charges 261 EUR for 80 units of instruction per month.

What is your main goal? Are you coming to Germany in order to learn German? Or do you just want to improve your German while you are in Berlin for other purposes? How many hours per week do you want to spend on formal language learning?

Hello and thank you for the response Kat

My goal is to learn German while socializing. German is the priority so I wouldn´t mind spending hours/day studying it. As I said learning german and socializing I believe help each other in a really good way

[Kraut]

His communication with you was insolent.
I meant his work, here is another example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DO_RBSjs60
Learn German Fast - Joe Landers after 4 weeks with smarterGerman

[Kat]

My goal is to learn German while socializing. German is the priority so I wouldn´t mind spending hours/day studying it. As I said learning german and socializing I believe help each other in a really good way.

I agree, socializing in German will help you to a lot to learn the language. I had been wondering if you were going to work in Berlin and had limited time for language study. Since that's not the case and you can concentrate on German, my first choice would be a class at a regular language school. I prefer face-to-face classes over online courses because I find them more motivating. But that's just me, a lot of people on this forum might say the opposite.

I would choose a regular language school because I think the pace of their classes is faster than an Integrationskurs and you said you want to get the most out of your time. If money were a big issue, I might try an Integrationskurs. Have you written to the course provider and asked if you will be able to get in? Immigrants and refugees will be given preference (the source I linked above says: ..."Anyone interested in learning German, as long as there are free spaces available on the course). A few years ago there was a huge demand for Integrationskurse but I don't know the current situation.

My plan is to rely in my social skills doing normal life (gym and other hobbies) and social events I will attend.

You seem to be a very outgoing person. If it's easy for you to talk to people in a language you don't know well yet, an online course and lots of social interaction might work perfectly. Speakeasy already mentioned the free courses offered by Deutsche Welle.

If you are looking for a language exchange partner (Tandem), try the Instituto Cervantes. I haven't been there in a while but they used to have a wall where people seeking exchanges could put a note. There were always more Germans looking for Spanish exchange partners than vice versa.

Good luck with your German adventure and have a good time in Berlin!