A French Book Reading Resource

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Carmody
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Re: A French Book Reading Resource

Postby Carmody » Wed Apr 26, 2023 11:09 pm

Le Baron,
I don't see it as melancholy as much as 'realism'.


Have you read Thérèse Desqueyroux by Mauriac, François, 1885-1970? That is not realism. The main character is Thérèse and she is clinically depressed. No other words for it.

I get your point re realism, however, clinical depression is clinical depression.

Of course, the French write happy stuff; absolutely, but just not in their literature of the 20-21st century.

Michel Houellebecq is renowned for his depression in his books.

And I don't believe you are suggesting the Dostoevsky was a realist are you?

I don't mean to mischaracterize your words. Melancholy is a part of life; I totally agree, however the way these authors handle it, it is the plat du jour of a one course meal of life.

Or so it seems to me....
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Le Baron
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Re: A French Book Reading Resource

Postby Le Baron » Thu Apr 27, 2023 12:51 am

Carmody wrote:Have you read Thérèse Desqueyroux by Mauriac, François

I have, it's some time ago, but that is what I would call a fictionalised version of reality. There are lots of people like this. And in other tiresome or unbearable situations and such books open a window on it for those who perhaps don't know it. For those who do know such existences it can feel a bit cathartic. It's no different to a novel like Love On The Dole by Walter Greenwood or Edward Wallant's The Pawnbroker.

I read a lot of French fiction and I don't see melancholy. I'm not saying it isn't there in some, but especially since maybe the 60s it's much more like dark, humorous stoicism. Especially those chronicling a sense of emptiness or superficiality felt in modern culture this century.
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Carmody
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Re: A French Book Reading Resource

Postby Carmody » Thu Apr 27, 2023 12:56 am

Le Baron » Wed Apr 26, 2023 1:33 pm

Carmody wrote:
Le Baron
Please post your answers in the other A French Book Reading Resource...
Thanks.
Carmody

But the post I answered is here!

How did two of them appear?


Jeffers made a mistaken posting and set up a new thread.

What we need to do is to keep posting to this thread until the Mods are able to shut down the other thread.

In the meantime we can think about melancholy to our hearts content on this thread.

Thanks for your patience.
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Re: A French Book Reading Resource

Postby Le Baron » Thu Apr 27, 2023 1:28 am

Reposting this from the other wrong thread:

Since I already finished the Dutch book - Eetlezen - Remco Campert - I was using for bedtime reading, I started another one which happens to be French (taken for reasons of chapter length). Worth mentioning here I think because it has very short chapters of 2-3 pages and is easy to read. I think this is one for Carmody because it has a strain of dry humour.

Agota Kristof's Le Grand Cahier. I actually thought her books were translations, but she wrote in French after being in Neuchâtel after leaving Hungary in 1956.

Image
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Carmody
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Re: A French Book Reading Resource

Postby Carmody » Thu Apr 27, 2023 1:54 am

Le Baron

Many thanks for your patience and understanding. The Mods have been advised and will hopefully delete the other thread.

Which doesn't mean we can't talk about Melancholia in this thread! :D
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Re: A French Book Reading Resource

Postby jeffers » Thu Apr 27, 2023 8:45 am

Le Baron wrote:
Carmody wrote:The French themselves have a widely recognized national trait that can be summed up with the constant need to râler or to moan and groan. Possibly that predisposition leads them to riot more frequently than the rest of us.

I would have said this chiefly about Russian literature (and temperament) more than French. As a stereotype with a pinch of truth and they also do gallows humour well. Also a lot of European literature has this vibe. You can even find it in British literature (until the trend for excessive comedy took over). And in the U.S. it resides among the novels of the 'literati'. All in slightly different ways.

I don't see it as melancholy as much as 'realism'. In general 'happiness' as something constant is an unreal state. People seem to make an effort to appear happy as though it is a sign of 'peace' or sanity or propriety, or good mental health.. Perhaps utter misery is also unreal, but, complaining and sardonic perspectives are more usual. Ther may be an argument that fiction doesn't have to mirror reality or 'real life', but if it does I'm okay with it.

Some readers dislike literary fiction of a certain kind because it's considered to have 'no plot'. Like that La Salle de bain I read a while ago. But I don't care about plot that much now. It's usually only a vehicle for thoughts and set pieces and ideas. Some people don't want that, which is fine and they'll be better reading other books.

France also produces popular fiction and humour etc.


I agree. The melancholy is the opposite of the Disnified view of the world where bad stuff happens but it always works out. There's often a perception that a positive outlook is a sure sign of a shallow personality, and that having a dark side makes you more deep. I definitely shared that outlook when I was young, but now I take a more nuanced view because I've realized that a lot of people wear their darkness as a cloak, but if you scratch the surface they're just as shallow as anyone else. At the end of the day, more melancholy might be a better reflection of real life and people's lived experience. Or it could just be the author using melancholy as a veneer, making themselves appear deep because that's the only way they know how. It really depends on the author.
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Le mieux est l'ennemi du bien (roughly, the perfect is the enemy of the good)

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Carmody
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Re: A French Book Reading Resource

Postby Carmody » Fri Apr 28, 2023 1:52 pm

Ok folks herewith an unusual post- a request for suggestions.

Please send me your suggestions for excellent books on French history or French biography in French by a French author that you know is really good. You don't have to have read it.

I have looked for a good history of Heloise and Abelard and failed, but if you find one do let me know.

So tell me what you know; I am eager to learn....
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Re: A French Book Reading Resource

Postby jeffers » Fri Apr 28, 2023 2:46 pm

These are the only two French histories in French I've ever read, but I think they're pretty good:
Métronome by Lorànt Deutsch is a history of Paris. The history is chronological, but each chapter starts at a métro station and works its way out from there. It's an unusual way to organize a history but it works well. Deutsch clearly loves Paris and loves history, and he brings the city's history to life while pointing out many of the places you can still see remnants. There is a second volume, but I haven't even looked at it.
Deutsch has another book about the history of the whole of France, Hexagone. Sur les routes de l'Histoire de France. This book revolves around the roads connecting the different parts of the country at different periods of history, beginning with the Via Heraklea. I'm only about 25% of the way into this book, but so far I'm enjoying it very much.
As an added bonus, there are also documentaries for both books. The Métronome documentary is quite good, but the reenactments are a bit silly looking now. The Hexagone documentary is a bit more recent, but as they tried to make it look all modern with drones and stuff, it will soon look dated.

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Le mieux est l'ennemi du bien (roughly, the perfect is the enemy of the good)

French SC Books: 0 / 5000 (0/5000 pp)
French SC Films: 0 / 9000 (0/9000 mins)

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Carmody
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Re: A French Book Reading Resource

Postby Carmody » Fri Apr 28, 2023 3:25 pm

Many thanks; they sound good.
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MorkTheFiddle
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Re: A French Book Reading Resource

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Sun Apr 30, 2023 11:21 pm

Carmody wrote:
https://groveatlantic.com/book/the-note ... third-lie/
“A haunting, harrowing tale that lingers in the imagination long after you’ve turned the last page.” –The Washington Post Book World


Definitely not something Carmody would read to go to sleep..... :D

Ágota Kristóf's trilogy is not unlike René Clément's movie Jeux interdits, which is a film about war as seen in part through the eyes of children. And the Washington Post is correct, imho, to dub the book unforgettable. The movie also haunts the imagination long after it is over.
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Many things which are false are transmitted from book to book, and gain credit in the world. -- attributed to Samuel Johnson


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