Impressive voice conversation with Talkpal.AI

[tommus]

I have been a ChatGPT user since it started and I am constantly amazed with how immensely useful it is, especially for technical and academic themes. I decided to investigate websites that offer language learning and language improvement using voice chats which use AI. There seem to be a lot. But after asking ChatGPT and Co-pilot which sites I should try, I have found one that, based on a single 30-minute conversation in Dutch, has very much impressed me. It looks exactly like what I was hoping for. It is Talkpal.ai.

Talkpal.ai

Why would I mention it here after only 30 minutes. Because I was so impressed. I wanted to tell other people on this forum about how it seems so good for me. It is not free but it is not very expensive, and you can start with a 14-day free trial.
So what did my first 30 minutes consist of? It was simply a 30 minute chat with Emma in Dutch. We started off with small talk and branched out into lots of different subjects. Despite my imperfect Dutch, Emma seemed to understand everything I said and everything I asked. She asked me a question every time she answered my questions. It was a very dynamic conversation. The quality of her voice was excellent. Her voice and her conversation was very much as if she was a real Dutch native with very extensive knowledge.
After 14 days free, the cost is about $8.00 a month for unlimited usage.
Besides the conversation, Talkpal.ai offers these features:

Advanced Chat
Writing Reading
Enhance your language skills by chatting with our AI teacher

Sentence Mode
Speaking Pronunciation
Build a solid foundation of your language skills by learning basics

Call Mode
Speaking Listening
Audio-only conversation to boost your speaking proficiency

Roleplays
Vocabulary Writing
Practice through useful real-life scenarios

Characters
Reading Writing
Engage in dynamic conversations with famous characters

Debates
Vocabulary Writing
Argue for or against interesting and intriguing topics

Photo Mode
Writing Vocabulary
Describe images and get real-time feedback

Obviously after only 30 minutes, I have a lot to experience with Talkpal.ai. But I am pretty sure it is going to offer me a huge amount of conversation and other opportunities to improve my Dutch. If others are using it, or try it, I'd love to compare experiences and ideas on how to use it even more effectively.

[Axon]

The great thing about these tools is that they're the worst they'll ever be right now. The not-so-great thing is that, when I tested Talkpal just now, it seems to be just a more polished and slightly more complete version of similar sites I've seen before, which means it still has the same fundamental flaws. I have a hobbyist background for the last four years or so in creating toy applications by chaining together different voice and language models, so I can imagine pretty well what's going on behind the scenes.

It isn't real-time conversation, it's recording your voice, analyzing, and crafting a response. It's like exchanging voice messages instead of talking, just at a fast pace. I have to say, it is very fast and I wonder As of this post, there do exist language models that can do real-time conversation, but they're not public and they probably won't be quite so multilingual as this. Real-time conversation means being able to adapt, interrupt, backchannel, switch topics, everything. I had sentences flagged as errors that would be mistakes if written, but speech is so different than writing that people shouldn't really be trying to speak in perfectly acceptable written sentences. I even had a sentence flagged for improper comma usage, which is of course nonsense with speech and a marker that they didn't think about filtering out nonsense corrections.

That said, even with the unnatural wording in Mandarin and the artificial-sounding voice in German, I did end up being able to suspend my disbelief and have a quick conversation. I could see this tool really finding a place for a lot of learners as is already. Still, I think people should come at it with a strong base in the language already as well as a large amount of skepticism for the naturalness of the conversation and the accuracy of the corrections.

[bombobuffoon]

I don't think actually these tools are getting better at all!

For Finnish at least Talkpal seems on par or even a bit worse than ChatGPT, but thats maybe just my impression because of the voice audio which is a bit better in ChatGPT.

I would warn you, these translation chatbots can understand you and produce responses but you can be producing total gibberish. I would be extremely cautious using these things.

I can write gibberish Finnish and have a complete conversation that a native would never understand but the translation is able to have a very good guess at the meaning. I don't consider that productive for how I train.

In fact the whole angle of talkpal is for me at least, counter productive.

Having said that they are great tools but it takes some figuring out how to get some real use out of them.

I find what these are better at are responding to these kinds of prompts:
Give me a sentence using this word x
How could I say x
Help me rewrite this sentence
Write me a short story about x, using these words, x,y z (I listen to the audio for listening comprehension and then summarize back)
Is there a better way to write this
Does this sentence work (treat answer with suspicion)

I agree it does not produce natural speech.

Where I have any suspicions I can check answers with natives. Also if I don't want to bother anyone I can use the Filmot youtube subtitle search to do some sentence mining around and compare with how natural the output is.

[tommus]

I've just had another 30 minute chat with Dutch "Emma" on Talkpal. Just like before, I was very impressed with how satisfying and productive it was. The topic I chose to discuss was astrophysics, the universe, dark matter, galaxies, telescopes, etc. The conversation was as interesting to me as if I had a similar chat with a real astrophysicist in English.

Some comments about previous comments in this thread:
Comment: the voice conversation in Talkpal is not real time. Well, in Dutch, there is only a very short pause between my responses and Emma's responses. And I think that short pause is actually a good thing. It gives me a moment or two to keep everything sorted out in my mind as I'm speaking and listening.
Comment: Not natural speech. Well, true. But Emma in Dutch is pretty damned good. I think she is very suitable for near natural conversation.
Comment: You can't switch topics. Sure you can. You can respond to her questions or you can ignore them and completely change the topic.
Comment: You can't interrupt, adapt, etc. Correct but I don't think I'd do that a lot while in conversation with a real native Dutch speaker.
Comment: Talkpal or other AI language tutors are too good at figuring out what you are saying even if your ability is not very good. That is true. Very good indeed. But you have to at least get your thoughts and ideas across well enough to be understood. Well, you wouldn't want it to fail all the time. How is this different than speaking with a native who is trying very hard to understand you and help you by responding well?

Obviously, Talkpal will be of different usefulness to different people. But if you simply want to improve your conversational ability at about the B2-C1 level, I think it is excellent.

Maybe Talkpal is a lot better in Dutch than in some other languages.

Talkpal is obviously using an excellent AI system (probably ChatGPT) so that it can discuss topics to as much detail and accuracy as you wish. It can explain virtually everything in great detail. That is certainly true for astrophysics so it is probably true for most everything.

So I suggest trying it a few times. Use different ways of chatting. Maybe only questions. Maybe asking for comments on your sentences and choice of words. How could I have said that better? I have a whole lot of ideas how I am going to have lots of future productive conversations with Emma. They will be limited only by my imagination and how much time and energy I have to put into the chats. I'm eagerly looking forward to the next one.

[Axon]

It seems like the way you like to do conversation practice fits Talkpal's use case perfectly, and that's excellent! I prefer other styles, or at least, I'm much more comfortable with another style. I think my baseline is that I have a lot of opportunities here to speak Mandarin with people who strongly prefer it over English, and I learn new things from conversation with them when they see my difficulty speaking and then guess at or correct what I mean to say. Almost all these interactions are in groups of 3 or more, so I guess I've gotten really used to a more dynamic turn-taking process. With Talkpal, I feel an internal pressure to say something correct and fully-formed, while in Mandarin with my friends I know I can stutter or circumlocute and we'll get there in the end.

I do think I would use a similar tool for other languages, though, if I wanted to reactivate my conversation skills. If they could make the prompts and the character a little bit more unusual or interesting, it could be a lot of fun.

[tommus]

With Talkpal, I feel an internal pressure to say something correct and fully-formed

I suppose with Talkpal, there is an obvious desire to speak correctly. However, for me, the pressure seems to be more along the lines of keeping the conversation going. I'm mainly concerned that my Talkpal AI partner understands my responses and understands my questions, so that we can continue an enjoyable conversation.

If they could make the prompts and the character a little bit more unusual or interesting, it could be a lot of fun.

In a conversation with Talkpal, it is "your" job to make it as unusual and interesting as you want. Your conversation partner is a very knowledgeable AI speaker. He/she will talk about any topic you steer the conversation into. And with an incredible depth of knowledge (like ChatGPT), he and she can go as deep as you wish into any topic you can probably think of. Emma and I spoke in considerable depth in a very technical scientific topic. She only went there because I asked the questions and steered the conversation exactly where I wanted it to go. It would be very difficult to find a native language partner who can respond to "your" interests to the breadth and depth that your Talkpal partner can. And with unlimited patience and eagerness.