Russian Through Reading -- Kenneth Brooke, James Forsyth

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Speakeasy
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Re: Russian Through Reading -- Kenneth Brooke, James Forsyth

Postby Speakeasy » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:56 pm

aaleks wrote:This ... is written in an un-(non?)-russian way. This looks more like a literal translation from English ...
aaleks, Thank you very much for making this observation, a review by a nature speaker of a language is of considerable value and is always appreciated. The Google references to the authors would lead one to conclude that they were respected experts in their field. This suggests to me that the "machine-like transliteration" may have been deliberate. That is, the possibility exists that the authors composed the introductory exercises in Russian so as to render them easier to read by native speakers of English. If this were the case, one could expect that, at some point, there would be a transition to proper Russian in subsequent exercises. Obviously, this is nothing but speculation on my part, other explanations are possible.
Last edited by Speakeasy on Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Speakeasy
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Re: Russian Through Reading -- Kenneth Brooke, James Forsyth

Postby Speakeasy » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:04 pm

ilmari wrote:Review by: E. Koutaissoff
The Modern Language Review
Vol. 58, No. 3 (Jul., 1963), pp. 450-452
Ilmari, merci mille fois pour la revue! We are developing a deeper understanding of this vintage textbook. Our collective interest could even lead to a "print on demand" edition.
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aaleks
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Re: Russian Through Reading -- Kenneth Brooke, James Forsyth

Postby aaleks » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:17 pm

Speakeasy wrote:
aaleks wrote:This ... is written in an un-(non?)-russian way. This looks more like a literal translation from English ...
aaleks, Thank you very much for making this observation, a review of by a nature speaker of a language is of considerable value and is always appreciated. The Google references to the authors would lead one to conclude that they were respected experts in their field. This suggests to me that the "machine-like transliteration" may have been deliberate. That is, the possibility exists that the authors composed the introductory exercises in Russian so as to render them easier to read by native speakers of English. If this were the case, one could expect that, at some point, there would be a transition to proper Russian in subsequent exercises. Obviously, this is nothing but speculation on my part, other explanations are possible.

I agree :) My post was just a warning, just in case, so to speak :)
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Seneca
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Re: Russian Through Reading -- Kenneth Brooke, James Forsyth

Postby Seneca » Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:40 pm

aaleks wrote:is written in an un-(non?)-russian way. This looks more like a literal translation from English.

*Ленинград - Санкт-Петербург,
Горький - Нижний Новогород,
Сталинград - Волгоград.

Hmm, I am a bit confused. According to Wikipedia (which adds an accent mark for emphasis):
Nizhny Novgorod/Gorky = Ни́жний Но́вгород/Горький
Leningrad/Saint Petersburg = Ленингра́д/Санкт-Петербу́рг
Stalingrad = Сталингра́д​

Per Wikipedia, the name change from Stalingrad to Волгоград/Volgograd was in 1961, so that change may simply have happened too late to make it into this book, which was published in 1962. Or is that not what you are referring to? Sorry if I misunderstand what you were getting at regarding these looking like literal translations of those names. They just seem correct to me. Is there a different spelling you'd use for these cities in Russian? You have me curious :-)

Also, when going back to investigate further, I realized I neglected to mention or even notice that the emphasis syllable of all words is marked with an accent throughout the book, even in the most advanced lessons. So perhaps not as bad for a student without audio as I may have originally thought!

Speakeasy wrote:aaleks, Thank you very much for making this observation, a review of by a nature speaker of a language is of considerable value and is always appreciated. The Google references to the authors would lead one to conclude that they were respected experts in their field. This suggests to me that the "machine-like transliteration" may have been deliberate. That is, the possibility exists that the authors composed the introductory exercises in Russian so as to render them easier to read by native speakers of English. If this were the case, one could expect that, at some point, there would be a transition to proper Russian in subsequent exercises. Obviously, this is nothing but speculation on my part, other explanations are possible.


Here is the lead-in text from the second set of readings:

Image

And here is reading #20 (of 66 total and out of the first 30 which have a translation) with the full Russian, the English translation, and the first paragraph of grammar explanations after. I believe showing this much won't break any copyright rules, but I am happy to edit this out if a mod feels differently:
Image
Image

Is this enough for our Russian speakers and learners to decide if this is a gem or an overpriced dud?
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aaleks
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Re: Russian Through Reading -- Kenneth Brooke, James Forsyth

Postby aaleks » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:30 pm

Seneca wrote:Per Wikipedia, the name change from Stalingrad to Волгоград/Volgograd was in 1961, so that change may simply have happened too late to make it into this book, which was published in 1962. Or is that not what you are referring to? Sorry if I misunderstand what you were getting at regarding these looking like literal translations of those names. They just seem correct to me. Is there a different spelling you'd use for these cities in Russian? You have me curious

I just listed the modern names of those cities, that's all :) . It was supposed to be a side note or something like that. I didn't mean that the names in the book are wrong.
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Speakeasy
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Re: Russian Through Reading -- Kenneth Brooke, James Forsyth

Postby Speakeasy » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:46 pm

Seneca, once again, thank you immensely for the additional insight into this vintage textbook. It's getting to the point where I no longer "want" this book, I "need" it!
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aravinda
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Re: Russian Through Reading -- Kenneth Brooke, James Forsyth

Postby aravinda » Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:12 pm

Seneca wrote:Is this enough for our Russian speakers and learners to decide if this is a gem or an overpriced dud?
Maybe overpriced but definitely looks like a gem to me. Thanks, Seneca.
Now, to hunt for a copy (before Speakeasy buys the only copy all the copies on the market :lol: )
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ilmari
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Re: Russian Through Reading -- Kenneth Brooke, James Forsyth

Postby ilmari » Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:03 pm

Also, when going back to investigate further, I realized I neglected to mention or even notice that the emphasis syllable of all words is marked with an accent throughout the book, even in the most advanced lessons. So perhaps not as bad for a student without audio as I may have originally thought!


Indeed, that the accent is marked throughout the book turns it into something very useful. I will also start looking for a copy!
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ilmari
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Languages: Fluent - French (N), English, Hebrew, Japanese.
Intermediate - Korean, Finnish, Spanish, Russian.
Studying (now) - Russian, Spanish
Dabbling - Italian, Polish, Yiddish, Mandarin Chinese, Arabic, Persian, Turkish, Urdu, Indonesian, Māori, Latin, Esperanto, Swahili
Would love to study - Norwegian, Swedish, Ancient Greek, and so many more.
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Re: Russian Through Reading -- Kenneth Brooke, James Forsyth

Postby ilmari » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:21 am

I have found this biography of James Forsyth (1928-2016), one of the authors. Seems to have been a very impressive and prolific character.
https://www.scotsman.com/news/obituaries/jim-forsyth-russian-linguistic-literary-and-ethnohistorical-scholar-1-4378804

'Russian Through Reading' was his first book (in 1962), while 'The Caucasus: A History' was published again by Cambridge University Press in 2013.
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polllyglot
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Re: Russian Through Reading -- Kenneth Brooke, James Forsyth

Postby polllyglot » Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:41 pm

Finally someone recording this book and making the audio available online

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuA5NqTepOw
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