General Méthode 90 Course Discussion

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Speakeasy
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Re: General Méthode 90 Course Discussion

Postby Speakeasy » Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:02 pm

General Comments
I would like to thank ClaireB for her excellent descriptions of the Méthode 90 series along with the additional information on generations, et cetera. In addition, I found Arnaud’s succinct elaboration of how these courses are structured to be quite useful including his mentioning that the learning curve with courses is often steeper than that for many other self-instruction courses. Many thanks also to neumanc, aravinda, David1917, Maiwenn, and Melkor for their contributions and, of course, to SkyNet for having opened this discussion thread. I have used the Méthode 90 courses to study German, Spanish, Dutch, and Italian and I found these materials very well-conceived. From my perspective, the only “outrider” in the series was the Italian course which some members have described both here in the LLORG and on the HTLAL as not really following the general concept of the series.

Compare / Contrast
I would compare/contrast the Méthode 90 and Assimil courses briefly as follows:

Approach
Both courses introduce the target language through a series of short dialogues which are translated and which are accompanied by short exercise sets and notes to the student.

Dialogues
As is the case for many introductory-level self-instruction language programmes, the situational dialogues in the Méthode 90 courses have a unifying theme or narrative which helps students visualize themselves in similar situations. By way of contrast, the dialogues in the Assimil courses seem rather disconnected one from the other; that is, there is no perceptible sequence such as: Arrival at the Airport, Passing through Customs, Ordering a Taxi, Arrival at the Hotel, Ordering in Restaurants and Cafés, and the like. Rather, the Assimil dialogues seem to be “snippets from everyday life” appearing quite randomly and which cannot be predicted. From my perspective, the psychological effects of the two methods are quite different, one from the other.

Notes
Both courses contain notes in support of the dialogues. In the Méthode 90 the notes are clear, very concise, explanations of the grammatical issues raised in the dialogues and in the exercise sets. Reading them, and discerning their significance, takes some getting used to, as every word counts. The information is there, but you have to remain focused in order to extract it. The Assimil notes, too, are attempts at exposing the underlying grammatical issues which are deployed in the dialogues. However, I have found that, while “the what” of the Assimil notes present is invariably correct, “the way” in which the information is presented is rather opaque. For me, it is as if the notes are written for people who already possess a sound understanding of the target language’s structure and that they are designed to serve as a reminder of insider knowledge. For this reason, when recommending the study of an Assimil course, I often suggest that the student kept a simple grammar close at hand for consultation purposes. Nevertheless, there is one feature of the Assimil notes which I greatly appreciate: the inclusion of comments on colloquial usage which are often absent from introductory-level courses.

Revisions to the Materials
Whereas Assimil is exclusively a publisher of self-instruction language courses, for Le Livre de Poche, the Méthode 90 courses form but a minor segment of a large and varied catalogue. It is perhaps for this reason that the Assimil courses cover a wider range of languages, that they are revised as to content (generations) much for frequently, and that the different editions within a generation have evolved with advances in recording technology and, more recently, the technologies of electronic devices, computers, and the internet. Putting aside the transition from audio cassettes to compact discs, the Méthode 90 courses have not yet followed this trend. Quite obviously, through the publication of successive generations of their courses, Assimil has kept closer pace with changes in the spoken language. However, I do not believe that this element, in and of itself, procures an advantage to the Assimil courses over those of Méthode 90.

Level Upon Completion
The content of the Méthode 90 courses has remained fairly static over the past couple of decades. In contrast, as I mentioned above, that of the Assimil courses continues to evolve yielding a greater number of generations. Furthermore, as many members have observed, there appears to something of a simplification of the Assimil dialogues with each passing generation. I believe that this element influences the results that can, theoretically at least, be achieved with the two sets of courses. I would say that the Méthode 90 courses are sufficient to bringing a student within the A2-B1 range. I would also say that this was once the case of the Assimil courses but that, owing to the successive simplification of their courses, which may very well have advantages, yields materials that are now sufficient to bringing the student into the A2 region. I would also reiterate my support for Arnaud’s comment to the effect that the learning curve of the Méthode 90 courses is sharper than that of the Assimil courses.

Language Base
As most members are already aware, the Méthode 90 courses are available in a French base only, whereas the Assimil courses, depending on the target language and the course level, are available in a wide variety of base languages.

Audio Recordings
In both cases, the audio recordings that accompany these courses were prepared with the assistance of voice-trained native speakers whose delivery of the dialogues and exercises is clear and well-articulated. Whereas those of the Méthode 90 series approach conversational speed between native speakers, those of the Assimil series are often artificially slower. As a rough guide, the audio recordings accompanying the Assimil courses are approximately 3-3/4 hours in duration whereas those accompanying the Méthode 90 courses are systematically longer, varying between 5 and 6+ hours. However, in my judgment, the additional hours of audio in the latter do not, in any way, procure an advantage in this case and this particularly owing to what feel to be the rather curious cumulative effect of the Assimil dialogues.

Which is Superior?
Assimil and Méthode 90 take different approaches to introducing the basics of a foreign language and, in my view, neither should be considered superior to the other. I happen to respond well to the conventional approach of the Méthode 90 series and yet I find the Assimil dialogues curiously more engaging than those of the former, particularly as a mass effect. I would recommend that students who are comfortable working from a French base consider acquiring both courses.

EDITED:
Slight expansion of the text.
Typos, bien entendu.
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David1917
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Re: General Méthode 90 Course Discussion

Postby David1917 » Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:45 pm

Maiwenn wrote:I don't have experience with the Chinois débutant course, but I do own it. Flipping through it now, I see that the texts switch from dialogue to prose at lesson 71. The texts are never longer than half a page and seem to have been written for the textbook. Nevertheless, they do cover a wide variety of topics and would probably be a good preparation for then exploring other texts.


Thank you so much for that preview of the texts (removed here for readability). I will definitely look into a copy of that book.
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addylad
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Re: General Méthode 90 Course Discussion

Postby addylad » Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:59 pm

Maiwenn wrote:I don't have experience with the Chinois débutant course, but I do own it. Flipping through it now, I see that the texts switch from dialogue to prose at lesson 71. The texts are never longer than half a page and seem to have been written for the textbook. Nevertheless, they do cover a wide variety of topics and would probably be a good preparation for then exploring other texts.
Prose titles are as follows:
...


This is super, thanks very much! Could I ask which version you have (or the ISBN would be even better)?

I can see that the newer versions don't seem to explicitly advertise an audio element; can anyone clarify?

Should I buy a copy of the new version, I'll be sure to post a review. It will likely be my first venture into Mandarin and my first "laddering" exercise. :o
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Re: General Méthode 90 Course Discussion

Postby Maiwenn » Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:14 pm

My version is ISBN 978-2-253-06583-8, published in 2004, print-only. There is an audio version available as well, but I had access to the CDs at the time through a couple libraries and so just got the book. Now I'm far away from said libraries and regret that decision. Oh well.
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Re: General Méthode 90 Course Discussion

Postby addylad » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:14 pm

Thanks Maiwenn, I'm still investigating the Chinois Débutant course.

I did pick up the Russe Débutant course for only £7, with all five of the CDs. I'm very happy. The course looks excellent, very thorough, but seems to assume more than a superficial understanding to begin with. That's not a bad thing; this can be learned anywhere.
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mokibao
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Re: General Méthode 90 Course Discussion

Postby mokibao » Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:22 pm

I got hold of the Russian booklet (the first-generation one from Soviet times), and yep, it is dense, and also terser and steeper than Assimil. It's definitely interesting (and ambitious!) that it purports to let you read huge literature excerpts after only three months. Maybe that's why they limited themselves to a couple European languages at first?

Also, in a stark contrast with Assimil, the recordings are full of French, this may or may not an issue depending on how comfortable you are with it, but it's something you should know if it matters to you.
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Ichiro
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Re: General Méthode 90 Course Discussion

Postby Ichiro » Tue Apr 25, 2023 2:35 pm

I got the Italian course. As noted earlier in this thread, a number of the lessons in the Italian course have no audio. I theorise that this is because the original course was issued with five cassette tapes, and the lessons in the course were so long, all the content would not fit on five tapes. Why not six? Maybe it took the course out of their target price point.

Still, if this is correct, it puzzles me that they would not have rectified the omission when they re-recorded the course for the second edition (removing references to lire and other minor updates) and reissued it on CD.

It has annoyed me that the course is incomplete, so what I've done is transcribed the lessons with the missing audio, and recorded them using a voice simulator (Italian voice). It's far from perfect, but I think it's better than nothing. If anyone is interested in having amateur audio of the missing lessons, you can find it on archive.org.
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Re: General Méthode 90 Course Discussion

Postby Tutescrew » Tue Apr 25, 2023 3:02 pm

Ichiro’s post reminded me that I have been looking for the audio for the FRENCH course in this series. I believe that the last time this course was published was in the early 1990’s? As far as I know from reviewing this forum and HTLAL, only one library in Paris has it. If anyone here can point to a legal way to obtain it, I would be interested!
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Re: General Méthode 90 Course Discussion

Postby Ichiro » Tue Apr 25, 2023 3:12 pm

It's also irritated me that the audio for the older courses in unavailable, so I'm working on creating a fresh set of audio for the Portuguese course, and intend to tackle the French one after that.

It's a question of whether or not you want my amateur efforts, of course.
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tastyonions
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Re: General Méthode 90 Course Discussion

Postby tastyonions » Tue Apr 25, 2023 5:58 pm

Ichiro wrote:It's also irritated me that the audio for the older courses in unavailable, so I'm working on creating a fresh set of audio for the Portuguese course, and intend to tackle the French one after that.

It's a question of whether or not you want my amateur efforts, of course.

How are you "creating a fresh set of audio?" Are you getting some native speakers to voice act?
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