Thematischer Grund- und Aufbauwortschatz

[aravinda]

I am a beginner in the German language so my knowledge of language resources in German is not very thorough. I have seen the thematic vocabulary books series, Thematischer Grund- und Aufbauwortschatz published by Klett. These books are quite comprehensive at some 500 pages and audio recordings of about 8 hours or so. I have read somewhere that books in the Barrons Mastering Vocabulary series are English adaptations of this German-based series. The latest editions of the series include English, French, Italian and Russian versions. I am not sure whether it included other languages previously. I could not find a current equivalent for German vocabulary in the series. But there are some older editions such as these:
English base
https://www.amazon.de/Thematischer-Grun ... iele+Forst
French base
https://www.amazon.de/Thematischer-Grun ... iele+Forst
It seems these books were never reissued with accompanying audio recordings. Or is it just that I have not been able to locate them? German book in the Barrons Mastering Vocabulary series has not been reissued in a new edition and does not come with audio recordings (unlike the French and Spanish versions).
I would appreciate if anyone could shed some light on the German (target language) versions of this series and/or give me any tip to locate a recent edition.

[Speakeasy]

Hello, Aravinda. I conducted several searches of the internet and of the websites of the major German publishing houses for "Deutsch als Fremdsprache" materials of the type that you are looking for and came up with results very similar to your own. As an aside, I vaguely recall a discussion of these types of books, either in this forum or in the previous one, which I will try to track down.

In the meantime, you might wish to consider the following alternatives by the publisher Cornelsen Verlag. Please note that audio recordings do not seem to be available for this series.

Lextra - Deutsch als Fremdsprache - Grund- und Aufbauwortschatz nach Themen: A1-B2 - Lernwörterbuch Grund- und Aufbauwortschatz: Mit englischer Übersetzung
https://www.amazon.de/Lextra-Fremdsprache-Aufbauwortschatz-Lernw%C3%B6rterbuch-%C3%9Cbersetzung/dp/3589015594

Lextra - Deutsch als Fremdsprache - Grund- und Aufbauwortschatz nach Themen: A1-B1 - Übungsbuch Grundwortschatz
https://www.amazon.de/Lextra-Fremdsprache-Aufbauwortschatz-%C3%9Cbungsbuch-Grundwortschatz/dp/3589015608/ref=pd_sim_14_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=6TK1QD62YXEN3EGYWW56

Lextra - Deutsch als Fremdsprache - Grund- und Aufbauwortschatz nach Themen: B2 - Übungsbuch Aufbauwortschatz
https://www.amazon.de/Lextra-Deutsch-Fremdsprache-Aufbauwortschatz-%C3%9Cbungsbuch/dp/3589016906/ref=pd_sim_14_5?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=NNDF4HR0XCDSFT2ZMBJ4

While I agree that "it would be nice" to have audio recordings to accompany these types of study aids, I am not convinced of the their necessity. I have a couple of these types of specialized dictionaries for German, from either an English or a French base. They rarely include pratical examples of how the entries are used and, even if they were to, owing to the limitations of space, the examples would be both limited and insufficient for purpose of practicing the target language.

As the question of how best to expand one's vocabulary involves a whole separate discussion, I will not expand on my views other than to say that, while these specialized dictionaries, including those of synonyms, do serve a purpose, I found that they were not as much assistance as I had initially hoped they might be.

[aravinda]

Thank you very much for the detailed reply and the suggestions. However, as I have already ordered Langenscheidt Grundwortschatz Deutsch als Fremdsprache which comes with audio, I think I would refrain from buying anymore German vocabulary books until I need a bigger one (such as the "old" Klett and Barrons books). I agree with you that these books are not as helpful as one would like them to be. Regarding the audio, I find it easier to have all the words recorded, so that I can confidently pronounce them. Actually, both series (Klett & Barrons) contain practical examples. I didn't realize the amount of audio material these books actually have (8-10h) and how useful they could be until reading this post by reineke.

On the Barron's Mastering Spanish Vocabulary

10 hours of audio... I spent three hours on this and my head is buzzing with sentences. I mean, it 's not Cervantes but the audio includes a lot of sentences.

[Speakeasy]

... as I have already ordered Langenscheidt Grundwortschatz Deutsch als Fremdsprache which comes with audio ...

Thank you for this! I know that I don't really need it, but I simply cannot resist it. It's getting late, so I'll place my order tomorrow. What a great way to begin the New Year!

[aokoye]

I've never heard of the German published book by Forst et. al. that you linked to but I have seen the Barrons version in stores (though I don't remember anything special about it). I did find the Klett version of the book that you're thinking of which is here. It looks like it and the one you linked to might be later editions/based off of this book. The main issue that I have with it is that, because it's aimed at German speaking learners of English, it doesn't have the gender of the German words. I'm also more than willing to bet that the MP3 files only have the words spoken in English. You can also find the other editions for French, Spanish, Italian, and Russian.

That said I do have the Cornelsen book series by the same name that Speakeasy linked to and have written about it a fair amount (just do a search). While it has a little over 4,000 words vs the more than 11,000 words the book published by Klett claims to have, it is still a very good set of books. From what I can tell the Cornelsen series isn't a reprint so much as it's its own series. Like Klett, they also have versions aimed at German expert/native speakers for French, Spanish, Italian, Russian, Chinese, English, and Portuguese (here's the link - because that's just too much copying and pasting). They also have a DaF version for Arabic speakers.

The main differences are the audience, the length, and the fact that the Cornelsen DaF (deutsch als fremdsprache) series includes workbooks (which are pretty good) whereas the Klett book for learners of English doesn't (though as someone who is proficient in English I can't imagine why you'd need it). As an English speaking learner of German another pro for the Cornelsen series is that it has examples of the words in sentences in German vs in English.

I've thumbed through a number of DaF wortschatz books and my favorite one at the A1-B2 levels is still the Cornelsen series. At the higher levels I don't really have any favorites though I can give you names.

Oh also to address Speakeasy's concerns about examples of the words (which are totally valid and ones that I share), the Cornelsen DaF vocab book does have sentences for each of the words in the book. The two DaF books that I have that go through C1/C2 do as well (though both of those books are only in German). I have the barron's version for Spanish as a foreign language as well but I don't remember if it has sentences and it's not easy enough to get to for me to grab it and find out.

TLDR - Go with the book published Cornelsen written by Tschirner. I have a bit of an obsession with German as a Foreign language books published by German publishers and have spent way too much time over the years looking through the publishers' websites. Time that could have been spent, oh I don't know, learning German

edit: it looks like the OP chose a book while I wrote this. I was a bit too slow, though seriously, so many links.

[aravinda]

...it looks like the OP chose a book while I wrote this. I was a bit too slow, though seriously, so many links.

Thanks aokoyo. No, you were not slow. Even if you were Superman or Flash, you couldn't have prevented that! I had already purchased that book when I wrote the first post. Right now I can't check your links to the Klett website because the site is down for maintenance but I assume your first link is to an earlier edition of this book.
If it is the one, you are essentially saying that the later English (base)- German (target) book was based on that book. I actually didn't think about that so I only looked for English (or French) base books. Having read your post, I realize that it wouldn't be too difficult to reverse the languages and produce a new book in the opposite direction.
Actually, the book I linked to above, Thematischer Grund- und Aufbauwortschatz Englisch: Buch + MP3-CD had appealed to me so much I purchased that too. As you correctly assumed it only has English audio and all the explanations are obviously in German. Personally, the books in the series published by Klett have enough sample sentences/phrases. See this image from the German (base) - English (target) book.

Screen Shot 2018-01-01 at 3.48.49 pm.png

It's not ideal but still the German and English words and examples are in parallel, it can be used by a German learner. Honestly, I might even learn some English from it too.
It is a shame, they don't reissue the English (base)- German (target) book with accompanying the audio.

[aokoye]

...it looks like the OP chose a book while I wrote this. I was a bit too slow, though seriously, so many links.

Thanks aokoyo. But you were not slow, I had already purchased that book when I wrote the first post. Right now I can't check your links to the Klett website because the site is down for maintenance but I assume your first link is to an earlier edition of this book.
If it is the one, you are essentially saying that the later English (base)- German (target) book was based on that book. I actually didn't think about that so I only looked for English (or French) base books. Having read your post, I realize that it wouldn't be too difficult to reverse the languages and produce a new book in the opposite direction.

Almost! What I was saying was that the book that you posted the picture of as well as the one in your first post is probably based off of a book that was published in 1977 (with the exact same name). It's funny because I was just about to say that I couldn't find any books from Klett with an English base but it looks like Thematischer Basiswortschatz is that book. It doesn't have any audio but otherwise it's what you'd be looking for. All that said, I'm glad you found a few books that appeal to you!
Also it's impressive how often Klett's website is down for maintenance.

[aravinda]

... It's funny because I was just about to say that I couldn't find any books from Klett with an English base but it looks like Thematischer Basiswortschatz is that book. It doesn't have any audio but otherwise it's what you'd be looking for.

Hmmm. That seems to be the book. I remember seeing it while searching but I passed it maybe because there was no audio or maybe because I didn't realize it is a 500-page book (or both).

...have spent way too much time over the years looking through the publishers' websites. Time that could have been spent, oh I don't know, learning German

Tell me about it!

[reineke]

"Dieser Wortschatz ist ein Must-have für erfolgreiches Vokabellernen. Die thematische Gliederung nach Interessens- und Lebensbereichen motiviert und garantiert systematische Fortschritte.

Ca. 9000 Wörter, Wendungen und Beispielsätze
Auswahl nach Häufigkeit und Aktualität bzw. Gebrauchswert

Mit grammatikalischen Angaben und wertvollen Tipps

Nutzen Sie die Vertonung, um von Anfang an die korrekte Aussprache der lebenden Fremdsprachen zu trainieren"

Niveaustufe: A1 bis B2"

https://www.langenscheidt.de/Langensche ... wortschatz

The audio portion is essential. Without it, the book is just another vocabulary builder.
I would call the entire series German based. The series is available for French, Italian Spanish, Latin and English. Latin: book only. The German translations include the articles.

Grundwortschatz - 4000 words with many example sentences
Aufbauwortschatz 5000 words with example sentences.

Absolute beginners should study this type of material in small doses. I'll hazard a guess that the more advanced learners will profit more here. Assuming the learner has a C-level vocabulary in both languages, the A1-A2 labeled Grundwortschatz is still a great vocabulary workout since all these words are "must-haves" in one's active vocabulary. Only a proficient bilingual can truly say: I have nothing to learn here.

For English-based audio vocabulary builders check out Penton's Vocabulearn series (available currently for free on Spotify) and the aforementioned Barron's vocabulary series.

https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =19&t=6666

[Chung]

"Dieser Wortschatz ist ein Must-have für erfolgreiches Vokabellernen. Die thematische Gliederung nach Interessens- und Lebensbereichen motiviert und garantiert systematische Fortschritte.

Ca. 9000 Wörter, Wendungen und Beispielsätze
Auswahl nach Häufigkeit und Aktualität bzw. Gebrauchswert

Mit grammatikalischen Angaben und wertvollen Tipps

Nutzen Sie die Vertonung, um von Anfang an die korrekte Aussprache der lebenden Fremdsprachen zu trainieren"

Niveaustufe: A1 bis B2"

https://www.langenscheidt.de/Langensche ... wortschatz

The audio portion is essential. Without it, the book is just another vocabulary builder.
I would call the entire series German based. The series is available for French, Italian Spanish, Latin and English. Latin: book only. The German translations include the articles.

Grundwortschatz - 4000 words with many example sentences
Aufbauwortschatz 5000 words with example sentences.

Absolute beginners should study this type of material in small doses. I'll hazard a guess that the more advanced learners will profit more here. Assuming the learner has a C-level vocabulary in both languages, the A1-A2 labeled Grundwortschatz is still a great vocabulary workout since all these words are "must-haves" in one's active vocabulary. Only a proficient bilingual can truly say: I have nothing to learn here.

For English-based audio vocabulary builders check out Penton's Vocabulearn series (available currently for free on Spotify) and the aforementioned Barron's vocabulary series.

https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =19&t=6666

I picked up the Italian version of this dictionary (A1 to B2), and find that it's indeed valuable because each entry almost always has an example sentence, there are usage notes for a few of the Italian entries in addition to their example sentences and corresponding translations to German, and irregular Italian verbs are marked as such and cross-referenced to a list in the appendix showing irregularities. See here to browse sample pages and hear a bit of the audio on Amazon.de.

As noted, these thematic dictionaries are meant for German-speaking learners of English, French, Italian, Latin or Spanish (European) but you don't need to know German if you're interested just in idiomatic example sentences for basic vocabulary in those aforementioned languages. When I look up an unfamiliar Italian word first in the index, it functions much like a regular Italian-German dictionary but with the bonus that I'll usually get to see an example sentence with this unfamiliar Italian word (assuming that the dictionary includes it). On the other side, beginning or intermediate students of German can find these dictionaries to be useful just for the entries and example sentences that are in German regardless of what the other language is (even when I suspect that a monoglot of English learning German would prefer Grund- und Aufbauwortschatz Englisch rather than Grund- und Aufbauwortschatz Spanisch, for example).

The accompanying audio is a nice touch for me even if it's just of someone reading an entry and its example sentence first in German, and then in Italian. I can't shadow the dictionary this way for more than a few minutes at a time as it's an otherwise excellent remedy for insomnia. You get the recordings either on the accompanying CD or on Langenscheidt's site for free downloads after having entered a code that's printed right before the dictionary's foreword. The audio consists of 96 tracks in .mp3 at 192 bps in a zip file of about 700 MB (1.46 GB uncompressed) so it could take some time to download (to save space and accelerate downloading, Langenscheidt could have compressed the files at 64 bps without a serious loss in audio quality, in my opinion). Each track covers a thematic subsection in the dictionary lasting between 10 and 20 minutes meaning that I get about 18 hours of audio in total for the dictionary.

There are indeed similar dictionaries by the other German publishers Klett and PONS, not to mention Barron's versions for the Anglosphere titled "Mastering...Vocabulary" (I suspect that the German-English version is adapted from this thematic dictionary published by Klett in different editions in the 1980s and 1990s).

When I browsed these dictionaries as a beginner in Italian with a background in German, here's what I looked for:

How are entries displayed?
- Cornelsen: Grammatical gender of nouns marked only in the target language (if applicable) 0
- Langenscheidt: Grammatical gender of nouns marked in target language (if applicable) AND in German counterparts. Usage notes included for several entries which provide additional hints on usage beyond straight comparison of translations. Irregular verbs in the target language are cross-referenced to an appendix, which shows salient irregularities in the conjugation +2
- Klett: Grammatical gender of nouns marked only in the target language (if applicable) 0
- PONS: Grammatical gender of nouns marked only in the target language (if applicable) 0

How are example sentences displayed?
- Cornelsen: One provided for almost every entry in the target language only. +1
- Langenscheidt: One provided for almost every entry in the target language with corresponding translation in German +2
- Klett: Provided for only about half of the entries in the target language with corresponding translation in German +0.5
- PONS: One provided for almost every entry in the target language with corresponding translation in German +2

Advertised coverage? (seems to be guided by frequency)
- Cornelsen: 4,000 entries -1
- Langenscheidt: 9,000 entries +1
- Klett: 11,000 entries +2
- PONS: 9,000 entries +1

Extras?
- Cornelsen: Complementary workbook available for extra cash; more languages available +1
- Langenscheidt: Free recordings (downloadable or on CD) of someone reading the entries and example sentences +1
- Klett: Free recordings (on CD) of someone reading the entries and example sentences +1
- PONS: Free recordings (downloadable) of someone reading the entries and example sentences +1

Langenscheidt wins with 6 points in my unscientific scoring scheme. Cornelsen gets 1, Klett gets 3.5, PONS gets 4. The cost for a new copy of each is a saw-off as they go for 15€ give or take.

tl;dr Get "Grund- und Aufbauwortschatz..." from Langenscheidt (especially if you're dealing with FIGS). PONS' is a poorer cousin of Langenscheidt's offering by offering fewer usage notes, no explicit marking for the grammatical gender of German nouns, and no hints about irregular verbs in the target language. Cornelsen's positive differentiators are greater choice of target languages and the availability of workbooks. Klett's positive differentiator is word-count.