What do I dislike about the Russian language and Russian natives most as a native?

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Ольга
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Re: What do I dislike about the Russian language and Russian natives most as a native?

Postby Ольга » Mon May 08, 2017 5:50 pm

aokoye wrote:
Ольга wrote:I hate when Russian natives, experienced teachers, who are highly respected, speak and write with mistakes in simple Russian words... Oh! How ugly it looks like. For example, I know one famous forum which is for Russian teachers of English. All these teachers are arrogant, bossy, and look down on students and undergraduates, who are just beginning to study how to teach English. But all of these experienced teachers are so illiterate in their mother-tongue! Oh, what a shame. Such mistakes, like «нету», «получаеться», which they are doubling from message to message. How can one teach a foreign language, if they don't know their native language?

The number of presuppositions in this post is terrifying. Needless to say, I hope that you never, ever, make mistakes in your Russian (or whatever your L1 is, I'm assuming Russian but I could be wrong). Actually no, I hope that you do, because otherwise you wouldn't be human.

Of course, I do, but I don't behave like them. :roll:
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Re: What do I dislike about the Russian language and Russian natives most as a native?

Postby aaleks » Mon May 08, 2017 6:54 pm

I’ve recalled the one thing I dislike about Russian natives (being one myself too). We pay too much attention to others’ spelling mistakes, sometimes even insignificant ones. :roll:
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Re: What do I dislike about the Russian language and Russian natives most as a native?

Postby aokoye » Mon May 08, 2017 7:16 pm

Ольга wrote:
aokoye wrote:
Ольга wrote:I hate when Russian natives, experienced teachers, who are highly respected, speak and write with mistakes in simple Russian words... Oh! How ugly it looks like. For example, I know one famous forum which is for Russian teachers of English. All these teachers are arrogant, bossy, and look down on students and undergraduates, who are just beginning to study how to teach English. But all of these experienced teachers are so illiterate in their mother-tongue! Oh, what a shame. Such mistakes, like «нету», «получаеться», which they are doubling from message to message. How can one teach a foreign language, if they don't know their native language?

The number of presuppositions in this post is terrifying. Needless to say, I hope that you never, ever, make mistakes in your Russian (or whatever your L1 is, I'm assuming Russian but I could be wrong). Actually no, I hope that you do, because otherwise you wouldn't be human.

Of course, I do, but I don't behave like them. :roll:

Except you're disparaging them in a way that could easily be seen as similar to the behavior that you said that you described above. Maybe you didn't mean it to come across that way, but that is how it's coming across. "teachers are so illiterate in their mother-tongue!", "[if] they don't know their native language?", "How ugly it looks like"...those are all really disparaging statements. Also some of those statements can't actually be true. You can't be illiterate in a language that you (likely) managed to get a university degree in - well actually no, even that statement is false, but it would require accommodations and/or a lot of extra help which likely wouldn't have been made available to the professors you're referring to. Also there are all sorts of reasons why people are illiterate - one's level literacy isn't really an accurate measure of one's intelligence.

edit: Amusingly I did just write a post the other day about not coming here to argue or have intense discussions, but I really don't like the idea of letting some of the ideas in the first post slide.
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Re: What do I dislike about the Russian language and Russian natives most as a native?

Postby tarvos » Mon May 08, 2017 8:48 pm

The thing is that most of the spelling errors committed by Russians that she mentioned are seen as extremely lazy and sloppy. It's roundabout the same effect you would get as people writing like this in English:

I dink dis is a good idea. But u shoulda asked my frend first, becoz he knows wot hes talkin bout. U dont think this is appropriate? well fuk u.

Etc. Etc.

It's not even a measure of intelligence, although some would construe it as such; it's just a measure of how little effort the person wants to put in.
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Re: What do I dislike about the Russian language and Russian natives most as a native?

Postby aokoye » Mon May 08, 2017 9:01 pm

tarvos wrote:The thing is that most of the spelling errors committed by Russians that she mentioned are seen as extremely lazy and sloppy. It's roundabout the same effect you would get as people writing like this in English:

I dink dis is a good idea. But u shoulda asked my frend first, becoz he knows wot hes talkin bout. U dont think this is appropriate? well fuk u.

Etc. Etc.

It's not even a measure of intelligence, although some would construe it as such; it's just a measure of how little effort the person wants to put in.

I make sloppy errors in English online all the time - see one of the sentences in the last post. The problem is that the phrases that the OP used in English were actually very disparaging. It was a "pot calling the kettle black" sort of situation. The OP claimed that these professors/teachers were "arrogant, bossy, and look down on students and undergraduates", and then in the next breath insulted them and implied that they supposed lack of knowledge of Russian meant that they shouldn't be teaching an L2. Again, there were a number of really unfortunate and offensive presuppositions in the post.

There's no way that I, as a non-Russian speaker, would know that the spelling errors weren't necessarily errors but a different register. Additionally, there's no evidence that the professors don't use a different register in more professional settings than they do on online forums. I have a very well respected professor whose register changes pretty drastically depending on the situation he's in. That, if anything, shows the complexity of his facility of English.
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Ольга
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Re: What do I dislike about the Russian language and Russian natives most as a native?

Postby Ольга » Mon May 08, 2017 9:28 pm

aokoye wrote:
tarvos wrote:The thing is that most of the spelling errors committed by Russians that she mentioned are seen as extremely lazy and sloppy. It's roundabout the same effect you would get as people writing like this in English:

I dink dis is a good idea. But u shoulda asked my frend first, becoz he knows wot hes talkin bout. U dont think this is appropriate? well fuk u.

Etc. Etc.

It's not even a measure of intelligence, although some would construe it as such; it's just a measure of how little effort the person wants to put in.

I make sloppy errors in English online all the time - see one of the sentences in the last post. The problem is that the phrases that the OP used in English were actually very disparaging. It was a "pot calling the kettle black" sort of situation. The OP claimed that these professors/teachers were "arrogant, bossy, and look down on students and undergraduates", and then in the next breath insulted them and implied that they supposed lack of knowledge of Russian meant that they shouldn't be teaching an L2. Again, there were a number of really unfortunate and offensive presuppositions in the post.

There's no way that I, as a non-Russian speaker, would know that the spelling errors weren't necessarily errors but a different register. Additionally, there's no evidence that the professors don't use a different register in more professional settings than they do on online forums. I have a very well respected professor whose register changes pretty drastically depending on the situation he's in. That, if anything, shows the complexity of his facility of English.

They are not my university professors. I am talking about the forum, where Russians are gathering. Every time I came there, I was said by them something like "Shut up, nasty bastard! You don't have CPE. We are the best, you are the worst". And I am not sure they're professors or have any degree at all.
Anyway, you can consider me Russian Grammar Nazi. :D
As for teachers' illiteracy, there is a discussion about teachers somewhere over here. You can easily find it.
Last edited by Ольга on Mon May 08, 2017 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What do I dislike about the Russian language and Russian natives most as a native?

Postby Serpent » Mon May 08, 2017 9:31 pm

Many of these things are purely spelling conventions.
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Re: What do I dislike about the Russian language and Russian natives most as a native?

Postby aaleks » Mon May 08, 2017 10:13 pm

'нету' - is not a mistake. It is an informal (or colloquial) version of 'нет' ('no'). Although we usually don't use the word 'нетy' in writing, in an informal communication on a forum that isn’t a crime to use it, IMHO.
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Re: What do I dislike about the Russian language and Russian natives most as a native?

Postby Ольга » Mon May 08, 2017 10:34 pm

You know, 16 years ago I received D several times for just pronouncing the word at the lessons of Russian (secondary school)
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Re: What do I dislike about the Russian language and Russian natives most as a native?

Postby aaleks » Mon May 08, 2017 11:10 pm

Ольга, school is a formal situation. I doubt that I would had received a good grade if I, for example, used the word 'блин' ( I'm speaking not about the food, of course ;) ) in an essay (or how we should call 'Сочинение' in English?) for school. But I wrote this word many times on forums and it was OK :D
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