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how to differentiate nominative-genitive and accusative for some specific cases (arabic)

Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 3:54 pm
by jimmy
I am not sure whether there is a general rule. Imo,there are particular rules. lets see what I learnt.

1)because for instance if any part of body consists of two parts (means if there are two of them) then this is feminine.
if not ,this will be masculine.

for instance nose (انف) is masculine while ears are feminine ( اُذُنُ )
2) if any subject or pronouns ends with these اِ, ي,ة then these are feminine (I am not sure for ي)

3) there is quite interesting point if any clause contain something that reminiscent sexual case ,then this is accepted as genitive clause.

like this: الْقَلَمُ فِي الْحَقِيبَةِ الصَّغِيرَةِ. (this means : the pen is inside the small bag)

I shall try to share different forms

for instance how to differentiate this one

أَمْرِيكَا بَلَدٌ كَبِيرٌ. (america is a big country) I think we can acccept this as nominative but not sure.

we clearly understand that this sentence is genitive ,but how would we be able to decide whether it was genitive or not if we weren't able to se هَـٰذِهِ which is feminine word in this sentence. هَـٰذِهِ الْمِرْوَحَةُ الْجَدِيدَةُ.

Re: how to differentiate nominative-genitive and accusative for some specific cases (arabic)

Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 6:34 pm
by Hashimi
jimmy wrote:أَمْرِيكَا بَلَدٌ كَبِيرٌ. (america is a big country) I think we can acccept this as nominative but not sure.

we clearly understand that this sentence is genitive ,but how would we be able to decide whether it was genitive or not if we weren't able to se هَـٰذِهِ which is feminine word in this sentence. هَـٰذِهِ الْمِرْوَحَةُ الْجَدِيدَةُ.


I'm not sure how do you understand these grammatical terms (nominative, accusative, genitive, etc.)

As you know, the Arabic syntax is very different from that of Altaic languages, but let me use Turkish as an example. I'm not an expert on Turkish, but the possessive is constructed using two suffixes: a genitive case for the possessor and a possessive suffix for the possessed object. For example:

Nominative: Kadın ('woman'); ayakkabı ('shoe')
Genitive: Kadının ayakkabısı ('the woman's shoe')

In Arabic, this is how it works:

https://blogs.transparent.com/arabic/ge ... in-arabic/

I advice you not to focus much on these grammatical rules in this stage. Read, listen, and expose yourself to a lot of Arabic input, then learn about grammar.

Re: how to differentiate nominative-genitive and accusative for some specific cases (arabic)

Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 6:45 pm
by jimmy
hi, presumably this questions caused by my impatient personality :)
now,I think I unederstand but..

could you assess this source for me,I enjoyed it very much, now I have been on 10th lesson since two days.

the source: https://www.madinaharabic.com/arabic-la ... 0_008.html

Re: how to differentiate nominative-genitive and accusative for some specific cases (arabic)

Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 6:54 pm
by jimmy
(meanwhile,but the source (probably it was 6th lesson) mentions that there are some nouns that are masculine or feminine.)

Re: how to differentiate nominative-genitive and accusative for some specific cases (arabic)

Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:02 pm
by jimmy
I passed 10 lessons and as I think that it was quite entertaining to learn , I really do not want to renounce.

Re: how to differentiate nominative-genitive and accusative for some specific cases (arabic)

Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:09 pm
by Hashimi
jimmy wrote:hi, presumably this questions caused by my impatient personality :)
now,I think I unederstand but..

could you assess this source for me,I enjoyed it very much, now I have been on 10th lesson since two days.

the source: https://www.madinaharabic.com/arabic-la ... 0_008.html


Yeah, it's a very good course, but it has more religious content than other similar courses. I hope this doesn't bother you.

Re: how to differentiate nominative-genitive and accusative for some specific cases (arabic)

Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:14 pm
by jimmy
Hashimi wrote:
jimmy wrote:hi, presumably this questions caused by my impatient personality :)
now,I think I unederstand but..

could you assess this source for me,I enjoyed it very much, now I have been on 10th lesson since two days.

the source: https://www.madinaharabic.com/arabic-la ... 0_008.html


Yeah, it's a very good course, but it has more religious content than other similar courses. I hope this doesn't bother you.

nope,conversely,I enjoyed ,because I am muslim. :)

yours.

Re: how to differentiate nominative-genitive and accusative for some specific cases (arabic)

Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:20 pm
by jimmy
but if I don't bother you,

could you explain why this sentence is correct.

الكلب .الَذِي.... في الحديقة مريض

I selected , اَلَتِي but as you see, the masculine is the correct answer for dog,although we have no idea for its gender.

the exercise's address is here: https://www.madinaharabic.com/arabic-la ... 2_006.html

this exercise is not the same with that

الممرضة .... جلست جديدة

because the gender of nurse here is understandble but for dog ?

Re: how to differentiate nominative-genitive and accusative for some specific cases (arabic)

Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:44 pm
by hp230
Hi,
As an Arabic native speaker, I find this topic very interesting. Personally, the first time I discovered the cases, was when I started learning German (and I barely understood how they work at first, I needed to make some linguistic parallelism with French, and a lot of practice to get it right).
IMHO Arabic works differently, there is only two types of sentences: جمل اسمية(Nominal sentences) and الجمل الفعلية (Actual sentences).
Both types of sentences have a sort of standard structure. For example the Nominal sentences are always composed of 2 parts: مبتدأ وخبر
For the Actual sentences, a simple one is composed of 3 parts: فعل, فاعل ومفعول به (verb, doer of the verb, and a complement), but can have other components like other languages (time or space complements etc,...).
I never thought cases can apply to Arabic in any way. When I fully got the cases concept with German, I wasn't as shocked when I met them in Duolingo lessons in Russian or Turkish for example. I didn't check the Arabic Duolingo course, may be they have some associative lessons for cases...
I'm always thrilled to see people learning my beautiful language. Keep up the good work guys :)

Re: how to differentiate nominative-genitive and accusative for some specific cases (arabic)

Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:51 pm
by jimmy
hp230 wrote:Hi,
As an Arabic native speaker, I find this topic very interesting. Personally, the first time I discovered the cases, was when I started learning German (and I barely understood how they work at first, I needed to make some linguistic parallelism with French, and a lot of practice to get it right).
IMHO Arabic works differently, there is only two types of sentences: جمل اسمية(Nominal sentences) and الجمل الفعلية (Actual sentences).
Both types of sentences have a sort of standard structure. For example the Nominal sentences are always composed of 2 parts: مبتدأ وخبر
For the Actual sentences, a simple one is composed of 3 parts: فعل, فاعل ومفعول به (verb, doer of the verb, and a complement), but can have other components like other languages (time or space complements etc,...).
I never thought cases can apply to Arabic in any way. When I fully got the cases concept with German, I wasn't as shocked when I met them in Duolingo lessons in Russian or Turkish for example. I didn't check the Arabic Duolingo course, may be they have some associative lessons for cases...
I'm always thrilled to see people learning my beautiful language. Keep up the good work guys :)


ahaha very nice comment,many thanks for it :) :)