how to differentiate nominative-genitive and accusative for some specific cases (arabic)

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jimmy
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how to differentiate nominative-genitive and accusative for some specific cases (arabic)

Postby jimmy » Fri Apr 10, 2020 3:54 pm

I am not sure whether there is a general rule. Imo,there are particular rules. lets see what I learnt.

1)because for instance if any part of body consists of two parts (means if there are two of them) then this is feminine.
if not ,this will be masculine.

for instance nose (انف) is masculine while ears are feminine ( اُذُنُ )
2) if any subject or pronouns ends with these اِ, ي,ة then these are feminine (I am not sure for ي)

3) there is quite interesting point if any clause contain something that reminiscent sexual case ,then this is accepted as genitive clause.

like this: الْقَلَمُ فِي الْحَقِيبَةِ الصَّغِيرَةِ. (this means : the pen is inside the small bag)

I shall try to share different forms

for instance how to differentiate this one

أَمْرِيكَا بَلَدٌ كَبِيرٌ. (america is a big country) I think we can acccept this as nominative but not sure.

we clearly understand that this sentence is genitive ,but how would we be able to decide whether it was genitive or not if we weren't able to se هَـٰذِهِ which is feminine word in this sentence. هَـٰذِهِ الْمِرْوَحَةُ الْجَدِيدَةُ.
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Re: how to differentiate nominative-genitive and accusative for some specific cases (arabic)

Postby jimmy » Fri Apr 10, 2020 6:45 pm

hi, presumably this questions caused by my impatient personality :)
now,I think I unederstand but..

could you assess this source for me,I enjoyed it very much, now I have been on 10th lesson since two days.

the source: https://www.madinaharabic.com/arabic-la ... 0_008.html
Last edited by jimmy on Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: how to differentiate nominative-genitive and accusative for some specific cases (arabic)

Postby jimmy » Fri Apr 10, 2020 6:54 pm

(meanwhile,but the source (probably it was 6th lesson) mentions that there are some nouns that are masculine or feminine.)
Last edited by jimmy on Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: how to differentiate nominative-genitive and accusative for some specific cases (arabic)

Postby jimmy » Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:02 pm

I passed 10 lessons and as I think that it was quite entertaining to learn , I really do not want to renounce.
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Re: how to differentiate nominative-genitive and accusative for some specific cases (arabic)

Postby jimmy » Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:14 pm

Hashimi wrote:
jimmy wrote:hi, presumably this questions caused by my impatient personality :)
now,I think I unederstand but..

could you assess this source for me,I enjoyed it very much, now I have been on 10th lesson since two days.

the source: https://www.madinaharabic.com/arabic-la ... 0_008.html


Yeah, it's a very good course, but it has more religious content than other similar courses. I hope this doesn't bother you.

nope,conversely,I enjoyed ,because I am muslim. :)

yours.
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Re: how to differentiate nominative-genitive and accusative for some specific cases (arabic)

Postby jimmy » Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:20 pm

but if I don't bother you,

could you explain why this sentence is correct.

الكلب .الَذِي.... في الحديقة مريض

I selected , اَلَتِي but as you see, the masculine is the correct answer for dog,although we have no idea for its gender.

the exercise's address is here: https://www.madinaharabic.com/arabic-la ... 2_006.html

this exercise is not the same with that

الممرضة .... جلست جديدة

because the gender of nurse here is understandble but for dog ?
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Re: how to differentiate nominative-genitive and accusative for some specific cases (arabic)

Postby hp230 » Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:44 pm

Hi,
As an Arabic native speaker, I find this topic very interesting. Personally, the first time I discovered the cases, was when I started learning German (and I barely understood how they work at first, I needed to make some linguistic parallelism with French, and a lot of practice to get it right).
IMHO Arabic works differently, there is only two types of sentences: جمل اسمية(Nominal sentences) and الجمل الفعلية (Actual sentences).
Both types of sentences have a sort of standard structure. For example the Nominal sentences are always composed of 2 parts: مبتدأ وخبر
For the Actual sentences, a simple one is composed of 3 parts: فعل, فاعل ومفعول به (verb, doer of the verb, and a complement), but can have other components like other languages (time or space complements etc,...).
I never thought cases can apply to Arabic in any way. When I fully got the cases concept with German, I wasn't as shocked when I met them in Duolingo lessons in Russian or Turkish for example. I didn't check the Arabic Duolingo course, may be they have some associative lessons for cases...
I'm always thrilled to see people learning my beautiful language. Keep up the good work guys :)
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Re: how to differentiate nominative-genitive and accusative for some specific cases (arabic)

Postby jimmy » Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:51 pm

hp230 wrote:Hi,
As an Arabic native speaker, I find this topic very interesting. Personally, the first time I discovered the cases, was when I started learning German (and I barely understood how they work at first, I needed to make some linguistic parallelism with French, and a lot of practice to get it right).
IMHO Arabic works differently, there is only two types of sentences: جمل اسمية(Nominal sentences) and الجمل الفعلية (Actual sentences).
Both types of sentences have a sort of standard structure. For example the Nominal sentences are always composed of 2 parts: مبتدأ وخبر
For the Actual sentences, a simple one is composed of 3 parts: فعل, فاعل ومفعول به (verb, doer of the verb, and a complement), but can have other components like other languages (time or space complements etc,...).
I never thought cases can apply to Arabic in any way. When I fully got the cases concept with German, I wasn't as shocked when I met them in Duolingo lessons in Russian or Turkish for example. I didn't check the Arabic Duolingo course, may be they have some associative lessons for cases...
I'm always thrilled to see people learning my beautiful language. Keep up the good work guys :)


ahaha very nice comment,many thanks for it :) :)
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Re: how to differentiate nominative-genitive and accusative for some specific cases (arabic)

Postby jimmy » Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:46 am

Hashimi wrote:
jimmy wrote:....although we have no idea for its gender.


We do!

الكلب is masculine.

الكلبة is feminine.

القط is masculine.

القطة is feminine.

But the plural are always feminine! So if there are a group of male dogs كلاب, we treat them all as a feminine group, linguistically!

So we say الكلاب مريضة


oh,yes!
how did I miss this ,sorry really.

many thanks for these informative instructions. mmm.meanwhile can we say this as in general situation?

for instance

المُهْندِيسُ --->> The engineer is singular and also masculine ,similarly as above. but;

المُهْندِيسُنَ ---->> plural form. (therefore can we say that this is FEMININE?)

المُدُرِّسُ --->> already masculine (we know this.)
المٌدَرِّسُن --->> plural (i.e.: feminine ?)
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Re: how to differentiate nominative-genitive and accusative for some specific cases (arabic)

Postby Doitsujin » Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:32 am

jimmy wrote:المُهْندِيسُ --->> The engineer is singular and also masculine ,similarly as above. but;
المُهْندِيسُنَ ---->> plural form. (therefore can we say that this is FEMININE?)

المُدُرِّسُ --->> already masculine (we know this.)
المٌدَرِّسُن --->> plural (i.e.: feminine ?)
You've misspelled the singular and plural forms

Engineer:
مُهَنْدِسٌ [muhandis(ŭn)]
مُهَنْدِسُونَ / مُهَنْدِسِيْنَ [muhandisūn(a)/muhandisīn(a)]

As Hashimi has already explained, non-human plurals are treated like feminine singular nouns and are used with feminine singular adjectives, however, male plural forms ending in -ūn(a)/īn(a) and female plurals forms ending in -āt(ŭn) are used with the corresponding plural adjective forms.

For example:

dilligent (male) engineers = مُهَنْدِسُونَ مُجْتَهِدُونَ
dilligent (female) engineers = مُهَنْدِساتٌ مُجْتَهِداتٌ

(Plural adjectives also need to be used for other plural forms if they refer to human beings.)
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