How Long?

[LewArcher]

Hello. I would like to apply to a job that requires I speak at the ILR 2+ (Limited working proficiency plus)level. My native language is English and I know no other languages. A local community college offers 4 semesters of French and I plan to enroll into the first one this month. The classes consist of 5 hours a week of Lecture and 5 hours of Lab over 4 days each week totaling 54 hours of Lecture and 54 hours of Lab for the semester plus homework.

How long might it take me to get to the ILR 2+ level?

Thanks.

[David1917]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

First, I would recommend editing your title to more accurately reflect the substance of your question beyond "How Long"

Second, the answer is, unfortunately, "it depends." On the instructor, on the other students, on the curriculum, and most of all on you. Some people like to quote specific numbers of hours, but there's too many caveats in there to trust any such figure.

Basically, if you spend 6 hours a day working on French, you could be looking at a matter of months. If you only do your classes and required coursework, then maybe maybe maybe after the fourth semester you'll be getting somewhere. The latter case is why many on here find that self-teaching languages is more effective in many respects. Either way, one thing that can be accepted as axiomatic is that you need multiple points of contact with a language in order to be reasonably successful in a reasonable amount of time.

To offer something concrete I'll give you some recommendations for self-study that can well supplement your course:
- Michel Thomas French. This isn't good on it's own, but is a good supplement to hearing different explanations. It's also pretty hands-off and very simple so it's a good way for people to ease their way into a new language, can be listened to more passively e.g. driving, on the treadmill, etc.
- Assimil New French With Ease. This is going to give you lots of input recorded by native speakers, with 120 dialogues that systematically build upon one another. The book is presented in bilingual text format - French on the left page, English on the right. So you can on repeated listens/reads gradually "assimilate" the French into your brain. This is an older out of print course that can be found on ebay/Amazon etc.

Free:
Both of these courses are legally available for free on the yojik site. https://fsi-languages.yojik.eu/
- Cortina French. This has 16 dialogues plus 4 longer (3-4 page) essays. Follows a similar layout to Assimil, but just doesn't have as much or varied content. The back of the book also contains a reference grammar, but in order to make use of it you'd either want to print the PDF or just buy the book for cheap from Amazon, taking advantage of the free audio.
- FSI Basic French. I haven't used this, but some users really like it. These are courses designed by the US Gov to teach diplomats language in a very short timespan. The method is intended for very specific circumstances (several hours a day of intense directed study with an instructor plus 2-3 hours of homework) but nonetheless useful on its own as reinforcement material.
- (Maybe) Your school might have an institutional contract to use Rosetta Stone in the computer lab. The French program is one of the few that I can wholeheartedly recommend using.

[rdearman]

The Foreign Service Institute (They train US diplomats) consider French a category 1 language, one of the easiest for an English speaker. They estimate:

The Foreign Service Institute's School of Language Studies (SLS) offers instruction in over 65 languages, with course length and curricula varying to accommodate a range of language proficiencies, from basic to advanced. The following language learning timelines reflect 70 years of experience in teaching languages to U.S. diplomats, and illustrate the time usually required for a student to reach “Professional Working Proficiency” in the language, or a score of “Speaking-3/Reading-3” on the Interagency Language Roundtable scale. These timelines are based on what FSI has observed as the average length of time for a student to achieve proficiency, though the actual time can vary based on a number of factors, including the language learner's natural ability, prior linguistic experience, and time spent in the classroom.

French - 30 weeks (600-750 class hours) - So about 11 semesters.

[rdearman]

There is a huge list of French resources maintained on this forum. It is here: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 19&t=2914/

[David1917]

The Foreign Service Institute (They train US diplomats) consider French a category 1 language, one of the easiest for an English speaker. They estimate:

The Foreign Service Institute's School of Language Studies (SLS) offers instruction in over 65 languages, with course length and curricula varying to accommodate a range of language proficiencies, from basic to advanced. The following language learning timelines reflect 70 years of experience in teaching languages to U.S. diplomats, and illustrate the time usually required for a student to reach “Professional Working Proficiency” in the language, or a score of “Speaking-3/Reading-3” on the Interagency Language Roundtable scale. These timelines are based on what FSI has observed as the average length of time for a student to achieve proficiency, though the actual time can vary based on a number of factors, including the language learner's natural ability, prior linguistic experience, and time spent in the classroom.

French - 30 weeks (600-750 class hours) - So about 11 semesters.

It sounds like there's 108 hours total per semester if you add the lecture & lab times, so more like 5-6. But this comparison is completely pointless anyway because the conditions are entirely different, which is why I cautioned OP against bean-counting hours. If you read the instruction manual to any FSI course, you'll see the instructions for certain activities involve substitution drills where the instructor says a word, and each student in turn places that word into the sentence. I wonder what percentage of those 600 hours are spent in silence listening to another student struggle to give the proper sentence, anxiously awaiting your turn? That isn't to say that the FSI is not successful, it's just that the hours are based on having to teach a classroom of students with their format of over-learning.

[Ani]

That isn't to say that the FSI is not successful, it's just that the hours are based on having to teach a classroom of students with their format of over-learning.

And also the fact that FSI students already speak an average of 2.4 languages..

If anything, a monolingual beginner needs many more hours than an FSI student who is already skilled in language learning & getting full time professional instruction...

[Chupito]

I wonder what percentage of those 600 hours are spent in silence listening to another student struggle to give the proper sentence, anxiously awaiting your turn?

Yeah but LewArcher would also be taking classes, presumably with a lot more students than in a FSI class. They will also likely spend time listening to other students speaking and have other classroom-related time loss.

There's also the fact that the data for FSI concerns ILR 3 while LewArcher "only" needs ILR 2+. OTOH, FSI students have been tested for language aptitude, are placed in good conditions for learning, and many already know a foreign language.

All in all, I agree with you. It's an interesting data point and better than nothing, but there are a lot of variables. We can't know how they'll play out nor how long it will take LewArcher to reach ILR 2+.

[reineke]

Yes, anyone can beat the FSI timetable by listening to Michel Thomas and the good old ...FSI tapes? '

[David1917]

Yes, anyone can beat the FSI timetable by listening to Michel Thomas and the good old ...FSI tapes? '

Cute way to misconstrue literally everything I said.

[tiia]

Welcome to the forum!

I think for a beginner in language learning on average 2h per day are quite ok to not get overwhelmed. You still have time to practise on your own and consolidate what has been covered in the class etc.
My concern is however that you

would like to apply to a job that requires I speak at the ILR 2+ (Limited working proficiency plus)level.

Is there an application deadline? Or is the job offered every year? It's just that I don't know any application deadline that is more than 12 months ahead of the job start. And in order to reach a "limited working proficiency plus" it will require quite some time of learning.
The question is: do you actually have enough time?