Listening-Reading (L-R) by chapter or by book

[AML]

I'm about to undertake a Listening-Reading campaign with at least one Harry Potter book (I own the L1 book, L2 book, and L2 audio) and ideally the whole series, depending on availability of the resources and time over the next couple months.

I plan to do the main three steps that aYa recommended back in the day, namely:
1.) read in L1 to own the story (I will just skim quickly since I already know the stories well),
2.) Listen L2 and Read L2 at same time, and
3.) Listen L2 and Read L1 at same time [the heart of the technique].

For those of you that have a lot of experience with L-R, did you find that it's better to do Steps 1-3 for each chapter before moving on to the next chapter, or is it better to go through the whole book with each step before moving onto the next step?

Thanks in advance for your help.

[lusan]

I'm about to undertake a Listening-Reading campaign with at least one Harry Potter book (I own the L1 book, L2 book, and L2 audio) and ideally the whole series, depending on availability of the resources and time over the next couple months.

I plan to do the main three steps that aYa recommended back in the day, namely:
1.) read in L1 to own the story (I will just skim quickly since I already know the stories well),
2.) Listen L2 and Read L2 at same time, and
3.) Listen L2 and Read L1 at same time [the heart of the technique].

For those of you that have a lot of experience with L-R, did you find that it's better to do Steps 1-3 for each chapter before moving on to the next chapter, or is it better to go through the whole book with each step before moving onto the next step?

Thanks in advance for your help.

I have been doing it for a while for Polish. However....My way is a little different, I do as...

For a year I did

1. Listen L2 and Read L1
2. Listen L2 and Read L2

I took 5 min segments of Agatha Christi novels. Result... I made my time target... then I started listening to Harry Potter and I found that understood more than 60 %... it did not take more than 20 min everyday.

So now I do only... Listen L2 and Read L2.... I do whole chapters... (By the way, I plan as well to read the books in linqg. com). I intent to work on the whole Harry Potter series... I guess it might take 6 months or so.

[Dragon27]

I plan to do the main three steps that aYa recommended back in the day, namely:
1.) read in L1 to own the story (I will just skim quickly since I already know the stories well),
2.) Listen L2 and Read L2 at same time, and
3.) Listen L2 and Read L1 at same time [the heart of the technique].

The L-R creator's intent was to concentrate on the step 3 and use steps 1 and 2 to facilitate understanding at that step. So if you're able to go to the step 3 directly (that is, if you're already able to parse speech into words, not necessarily written words - which is what you should learn to do at the second step), and can keep up with the text and narration, then just do that. If you follow the text easily during the second step, then there's no point in continuing doing it.
I personally never did step 2 with whole books and dropped it after I've learned enough to be able to do just step 3. So I've just read the books in my native language (or a language I know well), then did step 2 for several hours for one of the books, and then just switched to step 3 all the way.
You should, of course, customize the original method to suit your own preferences. Here's an alternative way to do it described by the creator for when she was learning German:

I read a page in Polish, I listened to German and looked at the German text, I paid attention to the meaning, grammar, and letters-phonemes correspondence.
Then another page, and so on, until the end of the book. I understood almost everything.
It was the first day.

The second day:
I only read in Polish and listened to the German reader and the same time. I understood everything.
The third day – I only listened to the German reader. I understood almost everything.

I worked ten to twelve hours a day. I made 15-minute breaks every 45 minutes. I did some physical exercises.
I had three meals a day. I slept eight hours a day. I was healthy.

[StringerBell]

For those of you that have a lot of experience with L-R, did you find that it's better to do Steps 1-3 for each chapter before moving on to the next chapter, or is it better to go through the whole book with each step before moving onto the next step?

I think how much you do at once depends on your level in the L2 (and also your personal preference).

With Italian, I read one full chapter in L1 (English) then L-R to that same chapter in Italian.

With Polish, a language I have a much lower level in, I go paragraph by paragraph. So, read one paragraph in L1, then L-R to that paragraph in L2 (Polish). Then, when I finished a page (or chapter), I typically L-R to what I just finished only in L2.

I have come across the strategy to listen to L2 while reading L1 but that absolutely does not work for me. If I'm reading in L1 I do not pay attention to what I'm hearing if it doesn't match, so the audio is more of a distraction than anything else. To be honest, I'm kind of shocked that anyone can do this and actually pay attention to both things.

[lavengro]

All the best with your efforts AML. I will be genuinely interested in learning whether this approach is successful for you.

I remain highly skeptical of the purported core of the L-R method (listening to L2 while reading L1 for hours and hours). I recall this learning method being discussed at some considerable length over a period of time on the old forum, but I do not recall anyone, other than the enigmatic aYa, actually saying that they experienced any measure of success, other than just giving one a headache, although I note Dragon27 mentions using this method. For clarity, I am a huge fan of listening to L2 while reading an accurate transcript of L2, but that is not the point of L-R.

I do note, from Dragon27's post, what might be the actual key to aYa's undoubted success with language learning:

I worked ten to twelve hours a day.

[David1917]

I'd say chapter by chapter since you already know the books, that way your revisiting of them is more an exercise in language study. Luckily, the books get more difficult across the series, so it'll always be challenging in some way. To me doing a whole book is more like for something new - get the gist in L1, try to understand with that baseline knowledge in L2. Since you do already know the story, you might want to set a challenge of reading book 7 only in L2 with no preparation once you finish book 6. Or maybe watch the movie or something first to refresh the main plotline.

As far as the method, I can't comment on it but it does indeed sound like a headache and steps 1-2 far more beneficial on their own. That said, obviously it worked for at least one person and it could therefore be worth trying.

[Dragon27]

I have come across the strategy to listen to L2 while reading L1 but that absolutely does not work for me. If I'm reading in L1 I do not pay attention to what I'm hearing if it doesn't match, so the audio is more of a distraction than anything else. To be honest, I'm kind of shocked that anyone can do this and actually pay attention to both things.

That's the key part of the method - you should pay most of your attention to the speech in L2, and just quickly skim trough the text in L1, using it as an aid in comprehending the audio (that's where step 1 is helpful - having read the text before, you should know the content of the book, so you can just remind yourself of what you've already read by quickly glancing at the text). The audio shouldn't be a distraction, it should be the main goal.
Not every one can do it easily. Especially if you haven't done this kind of activity before. The ability to read quickly is essential. Since I myself am not a fantastic reader, I make ample use of the pause button whenever I can't keep up with the narrator of the audiobook. At the beginning I just do it one sentence at a time: read a sentence, then play the audio and listen to it intently, then pause and read the next sentence, etc. As I slowly improve, I am able to listen to longer sequences of sentences (while glancing at the text) without pausing the audio.
Properly done L-R is no piece of cake, it's a pretty demanding task. You can't just passively listen, you should pay attention, quickly analyse what you hear, while at the same time reading the text and trying to attach the meaning of what you're reading to what you're hearing.

Oh, and another thing: the translation must be faithful to the original text. Especially if you're a beginner (in this case, it must be as literal as possible). Otherwise you can only rely on your already existing knowledge of L2 (and if you don't have it - you're screwed).

I do note, from Dragon27's post, what might be the actual key to aYa's undoubted success with language learning:

I worked ten to twelve hours a day.

Not many of us have that much free time to fully devote it to some intensive language-learning activity
And if you don't love what you're doing, don't get into the "flow" of the process, you won't be able hold on that much anyway.
L-R is still an intensive activity after all, and it quickly exhausts you. I try to plan it in advance (for my planned vacation), and prepare the necessary material (and my own self) so that I won't waste precious free time not knowing what I'm doing.
Once the stage of natural listening is reached, L-R is no longer necessary. You can work on you pronunciation, speaking and repeating after the recording, reading voraciously, writing and using the language, watching TV, etc.

[ASEAN]

I do note, from Dragon27's post, what might be the actual key to aYa's undoubted success with language learning:

I worked ten to twelve hours a day.

Joseph Conlon (deka glossai) is a proponent of what he calls reverse listening (L1 audiobook/L2 text). He is a prolific reader. When his college required his incoming freshman class to read The Iliad, Conlon read the book several times over the summer. He later spent the winter break studying Ancient Greek eight to 10 hours a day so he could join a year-long Ancient Greek class halfway through the course.

Conlon credits Professor Alexander Arguelles with introducing him to reverse listening. Arguelles has said that he has spent 12-16 hours a day studying languages and ideally, without work and family commitments, he would still put in those hours.

[Random Review]

All the best with your efforts AML. I will be genuinely interested in learning whether this approach is successful for you.

I remain highly skeptical of the purported core of the L-R method (listening to L2 while reading L1 for hours and hours). I recall this learning method being discussed at some considerable length over a period of time on the old forum, but I do not recall anyone, other than the enigmatic aYa, actually saying that they experienced any measure of success, other than just giving one a headache, although I note Dragon27 mentions using this method. For clarity, I am a huge fan of listening to L2 while reading an accurate transcript of L2, but that is not the point of L-R.

I do note, from Dragon27's post, what might be the actual key to aYa's undoubted success with language learning:

I worked ten to twelve hours a day.

It definitely can work. I have tried it with German, Spanish, Yiddish and Chinese. With Yiddish I got too bored with the book (although there is a great selection of classic novels as free and legal audiobooks online, so I really should try again with a different book, I was just stubborn) and it was too difficult for me with Chinese (I couldn't follow enough of the Chinese audio and couldn't use L2 text because of the characters); but it definitely worked OK with Spanish. With German (where my level was a bit lower), it worked really, really well. I put LRing German up there with Michel Thomas as one of the most enjoyable learning experiences I have had, I could literally feel my brain downloading tons of information.

So I would say it works well if you are at the right level and you enjoy the book. If your level is too low (Chinese in my case), it is too hard; if your level is too high (Spanish in my case), it will still work more slowly, but your brain has a tendency to think it already knows and isn't as easy to focus on the L2 forms you are hearing. At least that was my experience.

You will know if you are at the right level, because you will enjoy it a lot. If you aren't enjoying it, I'm guessing that is what is wrong.

[Dragon27]

it was too difficult for me with Chinese (I couldn't follow enough of the Chinese audio and couldn't use L2 text because of the characters)

Yeah, languages like Chinese/Japanese are very different, and you can't just tackle them head on, like you would a regular European language. The approach should take all these difficulties into account. Look at the way aYa approached Japanese:
http://users.bestweb.net/~siom/martian_ ... c346179174
Parallel texts in original Japanese (in kanji and in hiragana) + translations + line-by-line audio (cut with Audacity) organized in playlists to be able to listen to one sentence at a time on loop, and to the whole playlist of sentences at once. And she has already studied basics of grammar, kanas, kanji and radicals, phonetics. This is some preparation.

It goes something like this:
- listen to one sentence on loop, while trying to comprehend its structure (how many words?), grammar, meaning, sounds, pitch, intonation. Use text in kanji and spaced hiragana, translation and pop-up dictionary if necessary. After that, concentrate on kanji (while still listening), identify its components.
- do that with the next sentence. And the next one. After 20-30 sentences listen to the whole set of sentences (using the prepared m3u playlist) in a row, consulting the parallel texts, when necessary.
- continue like that until you reach the end. Then start from the beginning, this time only listening, and checking the text if you forget something.