This example sentence caught my eye when I was looking up the headword "or" in Collins Cobuild dictionary.
Students are asked to take another course in English, or science, or mathematics.
Isn't the first "or" redundant? If not, what is the function in the sentence?
Is one "or " enough to separate several items?
-
- White Belt
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:42 am
- x 4
- devilyoudont
- Blue Belt
- Posts: 571
- Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:34 am
- Location: Philadelphia
- Languages: EN (N), EO (C), JA (B), ES (A)
- Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=16424
- x 1829
- Contact:
Re: Is one "or " enough to separate several items?
I wouldn't call it redundant, but it's not necessary either. For me it adds emphasis.
1 x
-
- x 7660
Re: Is one "or " enough to separate several items?
To my mind, the example sentence demonstrates the “either/or” pair which is used to delineate a series of choices. That is, the choices are …
Either English,
Or Science,
Or Mathematics
So then, the initial “or” is not redundant. In fact, I would suggest that the absence of “either” makes the sentence unclear. Nevertheless, most Anglophones would get the gist of the example.
If one wished to add clarity to the example sentence, one could insert “or one in” as follows … “Students are asked to take another course in English, or one in science, or one in mathematics.” I do admit, however, that this might appear just a tad pedantic to some readers ... myself excluded.
Either English,
Or Science,
Or Mathematics
So then, the initial “or” is not redundant. In fact, I would suggest that the absence of “either” makes the sentence unclear. Nevertheless, most Anglophones would get the gist of the example.
If one wished to add clarity to the example sentence, one could insert “or one in” as follows … “Students are asked to take another course in English, or one in science, or one in mathematics.” I do admit, however, that this might appear just a tad pedantic to some readers ... myself excluded.
0 x
-
- Blue Belt
- Posts: 559
- Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:11 pm
- Location: Abingdon, UK
- Languages: Italian (N), English (N), French (poor, not studying), Japanese (studying, JLPT N3)
- x 609
Re: Is one "or " enough to separate several items?
Speakeasy wrote:To my mind, the example sentence demonstrates the “either/or” pair which is used to delineate a series of choices. That is, the choices are …
Either English,
Or Science,
Or Mathematics
So then, the initial “or” is not redundant. In fact, I would suggest that the absence of “either” makes the sentence unclear. Nevertheless, most Anglophones would get the gist of the example.
If one wished to add clarity to the example sentence, one could insert “or one in” as follows … “Students are asked to take another course in English, or one in science, or one in mathematics.” I do admit, however, that this might appear just a tad pedantic to some readers ... myself excluded.
As a fellow pedant I do realise that it is acceptable to use "either" when more than two alternatives are being presented, but in that example I'd plump for "One of" in its place. The repeated "or" does make it clearer (to me at least) that the choice is "1 from N" (regardless of the level of pedantry employed by the scribe).
1 x
新完全マスター N2聴解 | : | 新完全マスター N2読解 | : |
新完全マスター N2文法 | : | TY Comp. German | : |
-
- x 7660
Re: Is one "or " enough to separate several items?
There are, in fact, numerous means for indicating that the reader/listener has a number of alternatives amongst which he can/must choose.dampingwire wrote: … As a fellow pedant I do realise that it is acceptable to use "either" when more than two alternatives are being presented, but in that example I'd plump for "One of" in its place. The repeated "or" does make it clearer (to me at least) that the choice is "1 from N" (regardless of the level of pedantry employed by the scribe).
I am surprised that the example provided by the OP should appear in a dictionary as, in my opinion, it lacks clarity. In the first instance, the students are “asked to” take another course. Does this mean that the “taking” the other course, in itself, is optional? That is, is this merely a suggestion or a polite request that the students are free to decline? As an alternative, does it mean that they “must” take another course from the list provided? In the second instance, as evidenced by the present discussion, I find that the sentence is poorly phrased as to the options available … one pedant to another.
1 x
-
- White Belt
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:42 am
- x 4
Re: Is one "or " enough to separate several items?
Thanks for all your replies. This example seems unusual. I searched Collins Cobuild advanced learner dictionary, there rarely pops up usage of "or" like it except this one.
0 x
-
- Black Belt - 3rd Dan
- Posts: 3526
- Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:04 am
- Location: Scotland
- Languages: English(N)
Advanced: French,Spanish, Scottish Gaelic
Intermediate: Italian, Catalan, Corsican
Basic: Welsh
Dabbling: Polish, Russian etc - x 8793
- Contact:
Re: Is one "or " enough to separate several items?
It's one of the weird side-effect of a corpus-based dictionary -- somehow or other they always end up pulling out multiple example sentences that really look weird out of context. I wouldn't like to try to interpret this without knowing more about the context. Is this university? Is English the main subject of degree study? Too many unknowns.Speakeasy wrote:I am surprised that the example provided by the OP should appear in a dictionary as, in my opinion, it lacks clarity.
0 x
- Cèid Donn
- Blue Belt
- Posts: 513
- Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:48 pm
- Languages: en-us (n); français, gàidhlig, gaeilge, cymraeg, brezhoneg, español
- x 1877
Re: Is one "or " enough to separate several items?
uitu89 wrote:This example sentence caught my eye when I was looking up the headword "or" in Collins Cobuild dictionary.
Students are asked to take another course in English, or science, or mathematics.
Isn't the first "or" redundant? If not, what is the function in the sentence?
It depends on the register of speech and who is your audience. English is prone is ambiguity, both in syntax and registers of speech; however, English is also prone to wordiness, ironically often the result of speakers trying to avoid ambiguity. The basic rule of thumb with English writing is the more formal the register, the more wordiness should be avoided.
Grammatically speaking, there is nothing wrong with that sentence, but when I worked as a uni writing tutor, I knew many uni profs who'd dock a student paper for things like that. I had many conversations with confused, frustrated and angry native anglophone students who could not understand why their profs would be so nitpicky, because English speakers are rarely taught (or taught properly) to write for different registers and different audiences before they get to uni where that sort of nuance starts to really matter. For more casual, expressive/creative or personal writing, such a sentence wouldn't be a problem, but in more formal writing, like academic or professional, it is better to avoid all unneeded verbiage, especially little words like this. In those more "austere" registers, it tends to irritate your audience. As for any ambiguity, good formal writing avoids that by informative content, consistent structure and clear context, not verbiage.
1 x
Note from an educator and former ESL/test skills tutor: Any learner, including self-learners, can use the CEFR for self-assessment. The CEFR is for helping learners progress and not for gatekeeping and bullying.
-
- White Belt
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:42 am
- x 4
Re: Is one "or " enough to separate several items?
Thanks for all your comments and advice. It is not fun to know a well-known dictionary like Collins should give a dubious example sentence. I am thinking about switching to a different dictionary. How about Oxford?
0 x
Return to “Practical Questions and Advice”
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests