Modern Russian 1 and 2 will take you how far? B2? C1? C2?

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issemiyaki
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Modern Russian 1 and 2 will take you how far? B2? C1? C2?

Postby issemiyaki » Thu Nov 22, 2018 5:54 pm

I know Modern Russian has been discussed here in the past, but it was never articulated how far one can go with such a mammoth amount of material. At first glance I can tell that it is already more enriching and more advanced than FSI materials. So, we're off to a good start!

But, what I'm burning to know is: What level on the CEFR Chart can you expect to reach by using Modern Russian 1 and 2? B2? C1?

I currently use Assimil (and Assimil without Toil) - but Assimil just doesn't have nearly enough exercises.

Modern Russian seemed to fit the bill, but I noticed it uses a lot of the same vocabulary. In short, the course is too behemoth for me to spend all that time, only to come out of it with impoverished vocabulary.

(Also thinking about adding Linguaphone into the mix.)

You might wonder if I have a tutor. Yes, I use an iTalki tutor, but the classes are going so slow. Last lesson I only learned Ivan is there, Ivan is here. He's in the house. She's in the house. Really????? The homework he gave me is weak, too.

I don't know if these iTalki tutors I'm picking don't have enough ambition or what. But what part of: "I want to eventually read Chekhov and Tolstoy do they not understand?" LOL. Seriously!

So, I may put a stop to my lessons until I'm at a point where I can converse in Russian a little more fluently.

And besides, I feel like Assimil, Linguaphone, Modern Russian, are really serious about preparing you to become a competent adult speaker in the language.

But I do know this: I'll never be able to read and talk about Chekhov, Pushkin and Pasternak, practicing 101 variations on: "я понимаю". I get it, already.

So, while I want to increase my grammatical dexterity in Russian, I also want my vocabulary to grow, and be able to take on authentic material soon.

Let me know what you think.

Thx.
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Speakeasy
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Re: Modern Russian 1 and 2 will take you how far? B2? C1? C2?

Postby Speakeasy » Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:58 pm

issemiyaki wrote: … What level on the CEFR Chart can you expect to reach by using Modern Russian 1 and 2? B2? C1?
The Modern Russian course does comprise of a fair amount of texts and audio recordings. The level upon completion would be “lower intermediate”, I would say B1 or B1+ in an independent-learning situation, but I wouldn’t go to the mat on this. In order to reach the B2 level with these materials, which might be feasable, I suspect that one would have to study them in a highly-concentrated fashion such as was done in the FSI courses (6 hours per day in a classroom, plus an additional 3 hours of study during one’s free time, plus exposure to Russian newspapers, and the like).

issemiyaki wrote: … I currently use Assimil (and Assimil without Toil) - but Assimil just doesn't have nearly enough exercises.
I would counter this by saying that Assimil is a lenthy, seemingly disjointed, series of exercises. The real problem that you might be experiencing is that the successive lessons increase in difficulty. Therefore, owing to the very small quantity of material that is available within a single lesson, coupled with the pace of the course, repeated practicing of the short dialogues can become quite tiresome. Under ordinary circumstances, I would suggest that you practice the Modern Russian sentence-pattern drills but, given Xmmm’s most recent comments on the matter, out of fear of provoking his wrath, I shall refrain from doing so. :D :D

issemiyaki wrote: … Modern Russian seemed to fit the bill, but I noticed it uses a lot of the same vocabulary. In short, the course is too behemoth for me to spend all that time, only to come out of it with impoverished vocabulary.
Modern Russian contains sufficient vocabulary to take you into the B1 area. I think you are mistaking the role of the sentence-pattern drills and the reinforcement that is gained through repetition. If you want a shorter course in Russian, but with much greater vocabulary, read “War and Peace” in the original.

issemiyaki wrote: … Also thinking about adding Linguaphone into the mix.
Go ahead, why not?

issemiyaki wrote: … Let me know what you think.
It seems to me that you are over-analyzing your situation. In your most recent question to the members, you received a lot of good advice. You will advance more quickly and more assuredly towards your goal by applying yourself consistently to your plan than by questionning the usefulness of the basic study materials themselves.

EDITED:
Expansion of the text.
Last edited by Speakeasy on Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Xmmm
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Re: Modern Russian 1 and 2 will take you how far? B2? C1? C2?

Postby Xmmm » Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:58 pm

Speakeasy wrote: Under ordinary circumstances, I would suggest that you practice the Modern Russian sentence-pattern drills but, given Xmmm’s most recent comments on the matter, out of fear of provoking his wrath, I shall refrain from doing so. :D :D


You know, I can read Russian at almost a B2 level and can speak and understand at a B1 level. And I did it without finishing Modern Russian, or even getting halfway through.

And lately my enjoyment of Russian TV, etc. has been ruined by this specter that haunts me. I see this guy in this isolated wooden house, in some valley where the snow is ten or twenty feet deep. It must be five hundred miles from the nearest city. And this guy is looking at me through the window, and he's got those little glasses you wear on the end of your nose to make it easier to look down your nose at people. And he's saying to me "You claim to know Russian, but you're an impostor. You're a big fraud because you never finished Modern Russian."

I'm haunted, I tell you. Even if it's just a review for me, I have no choice but go and do every stinking drill. It only takes 100 hours, what the hell.

And I know what that ghost will say when I finish. рад это слышать*


* "Glad to hear it", Modern Russian, dialogue 1.
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Ещё раз сунешь голову туда — окажешься внутри. Поняла, Фемида? -- аигел

Speakeasy
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Re: Modern Russian 1 and 2 will take you how far? B2? C1? C2?

Postby Speakeasy » Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:10 pm

Xmmm wrote: ... And lately my enjoyment of Russian TV, etc. has been ruined by this specter that haunts me... You claim to know Russian, but you're an impostor. You're a big fraud because you never finished Modern Russian...
I see only one way out of your predicament .. well, two, actually. :D
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David1917
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Re: Modern Russian 1 and 2 will take you how far? B2? C1? C2?

Postby David1917 » Fri Nov 23, 2018 2:08 am

issemiyaki wrote:Modern Russian seemed to fit the bill, but I noticed it uses a lot of the same vocabulary. In short, the course is too behemoth for me to spend all that time, only to come out of it with impoverished vocabulary.


Impoverished seems like the wrong word, since seeing the same words from Assimil dialogues in drill format, or seeing a new word from a drill used in various contexts in Assimil is a surefire way to retain that vocabulary. It takes a village (of materials)

So, I may put a stop to my lessons until I'm at a point where I can converse in Russian a little more fluently.


Not to say I told you so, but I think you will definitely find continued frustration in this regard until you have a better grip on the language.

But I do know this: I'll never be able to read and talk about Chekhov, Pushkin and Pasternak, practicing 101 variations on: "я понимаю". I get it, already.


I might have said this in the other thread as well, but for a shorter set of drills check out the Cortina course. It's free on the yojik site. It has dialogues and drills, much fewer than to be found in FSI or this Modern Russian course. You can get the audio as well and go along, or just read one chapter's worth each day. Be honest and objective - the book covers a lot of grammar with only a few patterns for each...pattern... so when you get to one that you're not 100% on the way with, say, something beyond "я понимаю," then pull up that section in MR or FSI and hit it all 100 times.

Overall, no single method is going to cut it with any language, least of all something like Russian. Just embrace it. When you finish both Assimils you might still want to go through Linguaphone anyway. The latter point of Assimil WT does have some Chekhov and stuff in it, so that will be good. There's a fantastic book called Грамматика в Контексте that you should check out at that point, too. But we're building a house here, and you have to know that Ivan is here and Ivan is there before you can know that "all happy families are alike and each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way."

Moreover, no method or group of methods on earth is going to do anything beyond "B1" because to reach something approximating that benchmark you have to be speaking with other people and accessing the news and simple works of literature. I think a lot of talk on this forum revolves around calculations of "words" multiplied by "hours" divided by FSI Categories and squared with the CEFR. It's all a good way to gauge progress, but really you gotta get out there and talk to people. Walk in the light my friend...

*Translations: я понимаю means "I understand" and грамматика в контексте means "Grammar in Context" - the book uses literary extracts to teach Russian grammar at the intermediate level.
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