An Obligatory "Which Should I Learn?" Thread

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Re: An Obligatory "Which Should I Learn?" Thread

Postby eido » Sat Nov 24, 2018 2:58 am

PeterMollenburg wrote:Well actually I do indeed agree. You're right, and I was more this way when younger too, so advising someone younger without the need for stability or without other family members to consider, it now makes sense.

I would actually like more stability in my life :lol: And I should consider my family more. That's part of the reason I posted this thread. I don't want to be capricious and go by whim or wanderlust as much as I do anymore, because eventually I have to graduate and be a responsible adult. That means chores, errands, bills, obligations social and occupational, otherwise. I kind of make myself sick with how little responsibility I have. I suppose if you're an average young person you disregard every person that could be important to you unless you decide they should be. Of course, I'm generalizing based on what I've heard other people say about people my age: past, present, and future. I'm also commenting on my perceived lack of consideration for others. My thread here thus far shows that, or so I believe.
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Re: An Obligatory "Which Should I Learn?" Thread

Postby PeterMollenburg » Sat Nov 24, 2018 4:18 am

eido wrote:
PeterMollenburg wrote:Well actually I do indeed agree. You're right, and I was more this way when younger too, so advising someone younger without the need for stability or without other family members to consider, it now makes sense.

I would actually like more stability in my life :lol: And I should consider my family more. That's part of the reason I posted this thread. I don't want to be capricious and go by whim or wanderlust as much as I do anymore, because eventually I have to graduate and be a responsible adult. That means chores, errands, bills, obligations social and occupational, otherwise. I kind of make myself sick with how little responsibility I have. I suppose if you're an average young person you disregard every person that could be important to you unless you decide they should be. Of course, I'm generalizing based on what I've heard other people say about people my age: past, present, and future. I'm also commenting on my perceived lack of consideration for others. My thread here thus far shows that, or so I believe.


You remind of myself somewhat... your self analytical behaviour in particular. I think that's a good thing ;)

You'll get there eido, just put one foot in front of another... and be careful what you wish for! :twisted:
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Re: An Obligatory "Which Should I Learn?" Thread

Postby haziz » Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:27 am

eido wrote:I know you'll all hate me for posting this, but I've forced myself into a corner.

I have already received great advice about this on my log (and elsewhere) and I've been testing it for the past week or so, but I'm not sure if it's working, mostly because I'm impatient.

I have a wishlist of languages I want to learn, but some languages are hard to find resources for. Faroese and Icelandic are two of them.

I've been told to follow my heart, and also to follow my head. I think both pieces of advice have merit. If I follow my heart, I'll be learning more "exotic", less-learned languages. If I follow my head, I could still do that, but it will take longer. However this path might have more immediate rewards.

The reason I think I'm debating this is I don't know what to do after I hit an A2 level in the lesser-learned languages. So my mind started to wander to: "What if I learned a language these languages are commonly learned through? Would I find more resources?"

Oh course, this could be just simple wanderlust or wanting to try out a new product, but for Faroese, I think there could actually be more resources in Danish than in English. I don't know though - I haven't investigated.

I don't like most of the FIGS or Russian, but I thought if that gave me access to more resources, I could possibly force myself to learn one. Russian for Polish, for example. Or French to access all the Assimils, which could relate to the above goal of learning Danish... Hmm.

But I could possibly end up in a program where I'd need a good basis in all skills at at least a lower-intermediate level, so I need to make up my mind. For this reason The Iguana suggested I learn a Romance language because I already know a fair bit of Spanish. To this I objected, but initially I couldn't resist the government resource he linked to for Catalan that was pretty comprehensive. I like comprehensive.

I was learning Korean for a bit, but I don't know how to direct a teacher with this language, so I stopped. I do think I need a teacher, since without one I won't keep going at a good pace, or know nuance. People also don't think I'm as excited about it, because I'm trying to use it to be diplomatic and enlighten myself in a way I normally wouldn't.

And of course, there's just the idea that I could learn a language to get experience learning that type and move on, or get a base with vocabulary and move on.

So if I had to focus my energies on one or two other languages, which should I focus on? The Iguana would say I've answered my own question, but I don't know if I have here. If I have, maybe you know me better than I know myself.

Make your case. Ready, set, fight! (Okay, don't fight. Be calm and collected like the nerds you are. Ahem. [If nerds could be that way...])

Thank you for your time.


Seems relatively straightforward to me. If you come from a Polish heritage, and your mother spoke the language at some point, then at least to my mind the family connection and relative availability of a partner in conversation and the heritage and background connection would seem at least to me to provide a stronger motivation to start, and more importantly to persist, with your study of the language. Ultimately though, only you can decide which language you have the most motivation to pursue.
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Re: An Obligatory "Which Should I Learn?" Thread

Postby eido » Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:29 am

haziz wrote:Seems relatively straightforward to me. If you come from a Polish heritage, and your mother spoke the language at some point, then at least to my mind the family connection and relative availability of a partner in conversation and the heritage and background connection would seem at least to me to provide a stronger motivation to start, and more importantly to persist, with your study of the language. Ultimately though, only you can decide which language you have the most motivation to pursue.

If German gets too overwhelming, I'll consider it. I just haven't found any Polish resources I'm willing to use.

So here's a follow-up question:

Now that I've settled on German and Spanish, what should be the game plan?
I want to max out my skills in Spanish to C2+, eventually getting some kind of piece of paper that says I'm incredibly proficient. But I want to walk the walk, not just talk the talk. I realize talking weekly for many hours might be the best way to go about this, because I've heard many people reference that. I don't think just going through the regular undergraduate coursework will prepare me for excellent conversation skills, especially as it's online coursework.
As for German, I guess I can aim for a low B2 if I want to pass the B1 exam, right? Earlier in this thread I did reference what's required, which is a test in ACFTL terms that demonstrates intermediate-low proficiency in the language or higher. I said I envisioned great things for German, but I can't see anything great happening yet since I'm still resistant to it. I already hunted down some of the recommended books for this language and started looking at them. They seem doable, if a little difficult.
Do I need teachers? Do I need to pull-off @rdearman style language exchanges in between all the studying? An output challenge I strictly stick to?

Right now I'm experimenting with my listening skills since those are the easiest, at least for me. I'm working with dictation. I'll soon start with shadowing, if I can manage to figure it out.
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Re: An Obligatory "Which Should I Learn?" Thread

Postby Axon » Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:10 am

One of the things that really helped my German was regular Skype calls with a guy from Ukraine who was bilingual in German. I think I found him on SharedTalk. At that time I was ironically less afraid of speaking than I am now, and although we didn't have a super-long language exchange relationship it was a great source of speaking practice. He'd mostly ramble about this and that (trips he'd done in Eastern Europe, shockingly obscene rap music), and I'd interject when I could and then he'd correct me.

I also found listening pretty accessible. There's more than 200 Easy German videos on YouTube, and I was watching them back when there were only a few dozen and I could barely pick out words here and there. But I also took university classes so I was getting many hours of listening in every week (albeit from advanced non-natives) without trying.

Unfortunately German grammar requires a lot of memorization to get all the word genders down. For that reason, if your success hinges on an exam, I'd really recommend a lot of textbook drilling and self-testing to make sure you can regularly create grammatical sentences. Once you can rewrite the declension tables from memory, that's when you'll start getting a big benefit from speaking. Otherwise you'll be guessing at the grammar and liable to pick up bad habits.

(I know this because I have never memorized a declension table in Russian and I have all kinds of bad habits that I'm trying to fix.)
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Re: An Obligatory "Which Should I Learn?" Thread

Postby David1917 » Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:41 pm

eido wrote:Now that I've settled on German and Spanish, what should be the game plan?
I want to max out my skills in Spanish to C2+, eventually getting some kind of piece of paper that says I'm incredibly proficient. But I want to walk the walk, not just talk the talk. I realize talking weekly for many hours might be the best way to go about this, because I've heard many people reference that. I don't think just going through the regular undergraduate coursework will prepare me for excellent conversation skills, especially as it's online coursework.


Definitely speak, speak, speak. If your school has a language exchange program, wherein you serve to help a Spanish speaker learning English and vice versa, jump on it.

From the CEFR guideline, I pulled the following two bits from the C2 column that you can (sort of) work on in a self-study manner:
"I can read with ease virtually all forms of the written language, including abstract, structurally or linguistically complex texts such as
manuals, specialised articles and literary works." So also read, read, read. Look at the descriptors here. I'd say you'll want to e.g. read Borges, read some Spanish commentaries on Borges, listen to a Spanish lecture on Borges, write a page on Borges (see below). For specialized articles, I'd start with some basic 101-level stuff in your field, see what they cite, branch out to related fields, etc.

"I can write clear, smoothly-flowing text in an appropriate style. I can write complex letters, reports or articles which present a case with an effective logical structure which helps the recipient to notice and remember significant points. I can write summaries and reviews of professional or literary works." Write, write, write. I'd begin by keeping a diary in Spanish, as well as maybe trying to summarize/distill some of the readings you do for the above.

I tried to find on Benny Lewis's site any tips on the CEFR, but this was all I could come up with:
https://www.fluentin3months.com/languag ... o-courses/
He claims to have sat the DELE C2 within 1 year. I like, guess I believe him, but that's probably the result of doing nothing but Spanish 24/7, and there's probably more to it than that, but either way he apparently did pass the exam, and if you can navigate the site you might find a more detailed writeup. On the other hand, as linked in the thread on job requirements, here is an extensive writeup from someone here who sat the test:
https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... it=dele+c2

Finally, as we also discussed on the jobs thread, preparing for the DELE exam is not just Spanish, but preparing for the test itself. So these guidelines and anything they offer on Cervantes Institute would be worth looking at. All in all, I think it will be a fun and rewarding journey, and I wish I myself bit the bullet and sat the C1 when I had the opportunity to.
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Re: An Obligatory "Which Should I Learn?" Thread

Postby eido » Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:42 pm

I will reply to you guys when I get home from work, but I did finally get a reply from the school. As long as the language is on this list, you can learn it.

https://flats.byu.edu/langlist.php

EDIT:
Axon wrote:Unfortunately German grammar requires a lot of memorization to get all the word genders down. For that reason, if your success hinges on an exam, I'd really recommend a lot of textbook drilling and self-testing to make sure you can regularly create grammatical sentences. Once you can rewrite the declension tables from memory, that's when you'll start getting a big benefit from speaking. Otherwise you'll be guessing at the grammar and liable to pick up bad habits.

(I know this because I have never memorized a declension table in Russian and I have all kinds of bad habits that I'm trying to fix.)

That's what I've noticed about German so far. I miss Icelandic because of that because Icelandic is a bit like Spanish in that sometimes with the ending of a word, it clues you in to the gender and thus the article and declension. I'll keep this in mind.
David1917 wrote:Finally, as we also discussed on the jobs thread, preparing for the DELE exam is not just Spanish, but preparing for the test itself. So these guidelines and anything they offer on Cervantes Institute would be worth looking at. All in all, I think it will be a fun and rewarding journey, and I wish I myself bit the bullet and sat the C1 when I had the opportunity to.

The degree is all online, but perhaps they'll have native speakers you can interact with. I think I might have to pay a community tutor on italki to help me.
I don't have a field. Like, I have a job (two, actually), but both are nothing to write home about - in fact, there's nothing written about them at all. So I guess I'll have to start with something that interests me instead, like tech or education, and go from there.
C2 will be hard to achieve if I'm bad in English with analyzing literary works. :shock:

Thank you both for the response.
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Re: An Obligatory "Which Should I Learn?" Thread

Postby David1917 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:27 am

eido wrote:I will reply to you guys when I get home from work, but I did finally get a reply from the school. As long as the language is on this list, you can learn it.

https://flats.byu.edu/langlist.php


So wait, does that mean you can just do Icelandic now??

Also how do you not have a field but are going to grad school? Are you getting an MA in language dysphoria? :lol:
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Re: An Obligatory "Which Should I Learn?" Thread

Postby eido » Tue Nov 27, 2018 2:48 am

David1917 wrote:So wait, does that mean you can just do Icelandic now??

Also how do you not have a field but are going to grad school? Are you getting an MA in language dysphoria? :lol:

I could, if I wanted.

But I don't know if that test is an acceptable one for the school, or if that's just the list they're going by. The test only goes up to 201 whereas the school requires you to take four semesters (i.e. 202) of a course if you don't go the self-study/otherwise different route. I have of course inquired.

However I have been advised not to attempt something so difficult, so I'm holding off.

I mean, my major is Spanish. So do I read about Spanish? And my jobs are menial, so they don't have a lot of intellectual literature to go through.

And I do recognize my indecision is annoying, so...
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Re: An Obligatory "Which Should I Learn?" Thread

Postby David1917 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:58 am

eido wrote:
David1917 wrote:I mean, my major is Spanish. So do I read about Spanish? And my jobs are menial, so they don't have a lot of intellectual literature to go through.

And I do recognize my indecision is annoying, so...


I live in a constant state of indecision, it's cool.

As for reading about Spanish - yes, that would be a great place to start, with some branching out ideas: The history of Spanish from Latin to Arabic (linguistic anthropology in general, linguistics in general). The history of the Iberian peninsula (history of Roman empire in general, history of Arab/Moor conquests in general). The history of the conquest of Latin America and the divergence/loanwords from indigenous languages. Issues of Catalonia and Basque (Issues of International Law and secession rights in general) etc. Can't divorce the language from the culture, so pick other issues in the Spanish-speaking world that interest you, whether it's Guevara or Allende or the Nazis in Argentina.
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