TYS Further German (1994) or TYS Improve Your German (2002/3)?

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Melkor
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TYS Further German (1994) or TYS Improve Your German (2002/3)?

Postby Melkor » Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:01 pm

Hello,

I joined the forum and started my German log today.

I have access to both versions of TYS, but would like to use just one. Is there anyone who has used either/both who can give me feedback on their experience(s) with the book(s)? It is quite obvious that the contemporary edition would have an updated orthography, but is it as substantive as the former and should I be really fussing about that (orthography) at my current A2 level?

Thanking you in advance for the responses. ;)
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Speakeasy
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Re: TYS Further German (1994) or TYS Improve Your German (2002/3)?

Postby Speakeasy » Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:11 pm

First off, welcome to the forum, Melkor! As I was interested in learning about how you had approached your study of German to date, I read your log and, while I did not find an answer to this question, I did notice that you have already discounted the idea of pursuing both of the Teach Yourself (TYS) German courses mentioned above.

Second, I vaguely recall, about 10 years ago, having tried to use one of the two courses that you mentioned and having been frustrated by technical problems with accompanying audio recordings: the CD tracks were a jumbled mess and were not sequenced to follow the lessons. I reported the matter to the publisher and received a replacement set of CDs which, rather unfortunately, had the same problem. In frustration, I did not complete the course and I chucked the materials into the recycling bin. Although I can no longer remember which edition I had used, I would imagine that I had rather reflexively chosen the more recent one.

Third, for a variety of reasons, there are precious few "genuine" intermediate-level language courses destined for use by independent-learners. As alternatives to the Teach Yourself series, you might wish to consider the following:

Living Language Ultimate German (Advanced)
This course is, for all practical purposes, a very solid review of German up to the Lower Intermediate level. The language is presented in a series of 20 situational dialogues, accompanied by concise, but truly excellent, explanations of grammar along with some brief exercises. The recorded dialogues are presented twice: (1st) without pauses, then (2nd) with pauses. There is far more material in this course than in the TYS German course and, in my opinion, it is more accessible. Although the course is no longer in print, copies are available via the major online booksellers’ websites. Addendum: The Living Language "All The Way" courses are identical in content to the "Ultimate" series with the exception of the German courses which were updated following the German Spelling Reform (a very minor, if not totally insignificant, difference).

Linguaphone German (Advanced to Expert)
The publisher assumes that the student has successfully completed the equivalent of their own Complete (Beginner to Advanced) course which, in my opinion, would bring the student within the A2-B1 range. The advanced course presents a collection of articles and dialogues, explanations of grammar, exercises, et cetera. In my view, the difficulty of the materials probably falls within the B1-B2 range. However, as the materials are entirely in German, this can come as quite a jolt to some students. The solutions in this case are either: (a) sit cross-legged on the floor and wail, or (b) get to work.

Assimil Perfectionnement Allemand
The course format follows that of the entry-level Assimil courses; that is, a series of disjointed dialogues accompanied by a translation and frustratingly opaque notes. Unfortunately, the course is not available from an English base. Nevertheless, a truly industrious student could use these materials in place of the Linguaphone Advanced course mentioned above.

FSI German Basic (Volume II)
Yes, the faint-of-heart frequently complain about the boring drills, the occasional out-of-date item of vocabulary, and the formal register employed in this classic. You might try running through the second half of this course both as a matter of testing your A2 level and as more complete preparation for intermediate-level materials. It’ll make a he-man of you, it'll put hair on your chest, strangers will offer to pay for your drinks, you'll gain new friends giving you the chance to toss your old ones!

Work hard, play hard!

EDITED:
Tinkering, typos.
More typos.
Addendum to Living Language.
Last edited by Speakeasy on Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Soclydeza
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Re: TYS Further German (1994) or TYS Improve Your German (2002/3)?

Postby Soclydeza » Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:19 am

Welcome aboard, always good to have another German learner! I don't have much to add (I have limited TYS experience and it wasn't with German) but Speakeasy gave some great ideas if you wish to pursue other intermediate courses. As far as orthography goes, I've found it useless to "study" that kind of stuff (by that I mean trying to ingrain it in your head by doing artificial exercises). What I find best is to familiarize yourself with it and become conscious of its existence; you will pick up on it as you work through materials and it will start to become second nature. If you have trouble with one area, refamiliarize yourself and continue, it will stick eventually, just like it did in your native language.

I'll be keeping an eye on your log, viel Glück!
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Melkor
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Re: TYS Further German (1994) or TYS Improve Your German (2002/3)?

Postby Melkor » Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:26 am

Thank you to Speakeasy and Soclydeza for your tremendously helpful feedback!

After scanning through the above-recommended courses, I have concluded that I will use the advanced (B1+/B2-) courses of both Linguaphone and Living Language Ultimate to improve my German in addition to a heavy dose of news, radio and some TV.
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Chung
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Re: TYS Further German (1994) or TYS Improve Your German (2002/3)?

Postby Chung » Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:07 pm

Melkor wrote:Hello,

I joined the forum and started my German log today.

I have access to both versions of TYS, but would like to use just one. Is there anyone who has used either/both who can give me feedback on their experience(s) with the book(s)? It is quite obvious that the contemporary edition would have an updated orthography, but is it as substantive as the former and should I be really fussing about that (orthography) at my current A2 level?

Thanking you in advance for the responses. ;)


I used the latest incarnation of this book, "Teach Yourself Enjoy German". It isn't that bad of a course, and comes off like "Teach Yourself German" that doesn't start from the bare basics, and whose level of difficulty and layout are similar to "Colloquial German 2". One thing that I don't like about the course is that it incorporates different themes such that the vocabulary or grammatical foci don't usually turn up in more than one chapter (which would otherwise help with retention). One chapter is daily routines, another is about environmental and energy policy (e.g. recycling, electricity generation), yet another is about health and fitness.

Since you're at A2, I hesitate a bit in recommending that you use the older edition. The problem is that your familiarity might not be strong enough to prevent you from erroneously adopting the old orthography in place of the new one. However, if you were at a higher level of competence (say B2 or greater) or you're just already used to the new orthography to the point of it being a habit or second nature, then as examples it's much less likely that you'd start using in instances where it's currently -ss or joining double infinitives (e.g. kennenlernen in the old way, kennen lernen in the new way).

"Ultimate German Advanced" is similar in level of difficulty to "Teach Yourself Further German/Improve your German/Enjoy German" but does have more audio. However, it is out of print, as Speakeasy notes, and so copies of it can be expensive. The market for self-instructional textbooks in English for German as a foreign language is very thin after A2 but there are lots of options in stuff meant for those living in Germany (i.e. material printed all in German, but still easy to adapt for self-study because of the publishers' provision of answer keys and/or supplemental audio/video files for free downloading). I myself like the material by Schubert Verlag and am currently using "Geschäftliche Begegnungen B1+" with the whole series "Erkundungen" (B2 to C2) waiting on my shelf.

Have a look at the thread for the German group particularly here, here, here, here, and here.
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Skynet
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Re: TYS Further German (1994) or TYS Improve Your German (2002/3)?

Postby Skynet » Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:06 am

Melkor wrote:Thank you to Speakeasy and Soclydeza for your tremendously helpful feedback!

After scanning through the above-recommended courses, I have concluded that I will use the advanced (B1+/B2-) courses of both Linguaphone and Living Language Ultimate to improve my German in addition to a heavy dose of news, radio and some TV.


The path of least resistance is the most worthwhile one! I am glad to see that you have finalised your list of resources. Looking forward to seeing your progress. :geek:
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patrickwilken
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Re: TYS Further German (1994) or TYS Improve Your German (2002/3)?

Postby patrickwilken » Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:40 am

Welcome and Much Success!
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