which or where?

[dewylotus]

1. It's in the very place which my great-grandfather came from.
2. It's in the very place where my great-grandfather came from.

What's the difference between the sentences? Which one is more idiomatic? Why can "where" be used here? According to my grammar knowledge, "where" can not be used in this situation! e.g.

I live in Beijing,which is my hometown.------ "where" can not be used here though Beijing is a place.
I live in Beijing, where I work. -------- "where" works in this sentence.

Thank you guys. This is really a gnawing question.

[patrickwilken]

https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/educa ... s-in-which

https://ell.stackexchange.com/questions ... h-vs-where

[golyplot]

I would personally use the second form, and consider the first to sound ungrammatical. I can't explain why though.

[StringerBell]

1. It's in the very place which my great-grandfather came from.
2. It's in the very place where my great-grandfather came from.

Unfortunately, I can't give you a grammatical explanation because I don't know what the rule is here (if there is one). I, like most Americans, know very few grammar rules. I have learned almost all the grammar that I know through massive reading throughout my lifetime. So, what I can tell you is that the first option doesn't sound right to me. It's possible that it's technically correct, but it sounds awkward to me and I find it hard to believe that a native speaker would phrase it that way, but anything is possible. I'm sure someone here will jump at the chance to argue that both options are equally acceptable, but I would never say the first sentence while I would say the second one.

My experience learning Italian is that even if according to a grammar rule something "should" be correct, it sometimes isn't. Over time, people got used to saying certain things in certain ways and much later other people created grammar rules to try to apply logic to why they say what they say. It's possible that there isn't a satisfactory rule explaining why one word works in a certain situation and not in others; over time we use where in some situations but which in others and it eventually became an "unspoken" rule based on how we're used to hearing it used, not because there's a legitimate reason for the choice. (Or maybe there is a rule, what do I know?)

[arthaey]

Native speaker of American English here.

The first one sounds stiltedly formal to me. The second option sounds natural. I might also use the word "that".

[smallwhite]

1. It's in the very place which my great-grandfather came from.

2. It's in the very place where my great-grandfather came from.

I live in Beijing,which is my hometown.

I live in Beijing, where I work.

3 and 4 have commas and are thus non-defining relative clauses, so their usage rules don't necessarily apply to the defining relative clauses in 1 and 2.

Try find sentences with defining relative clauses (no commas) to replace 3 and 4 for comparison and see if it helps or if you want to ask again.

[Cainntear]

1. It's in the very place which my great-grandfather came from.
2. It's in the very place where my great-grandfather came from.

What's the difference between the sentences? Which one is more idiomatic? Why can "where" be used here? According to my grammar knowledge, "where" can not be used in this situation! e.g.

"where" occurs in this usage, but not where I come from, so I personally prefer "that" or even nothing -- it's the very place my great-grandfather came from.

I live in Beijing,which is my hometown.------ "where" can not be used here though Beijing is a place.
I live in Beijing, where I work. -------- "where" works in this sentence.

Thank you guys. This is really a gnawing question.

In the first of these two, "which" is the subject of the sentence, like "I" in I am a man.
But in the second ...where I work -> I work there. "Where" fulfills the role of a pure adverb -- "there".

"There is my hometown" would be a strange sentence in English -- possible, but weird. It feels like I'm giving it to someone, or maybe pointing to it.

[golyplot]

I would only say "there is my hometown" when pointing to it.

[seito]

I could see using "which" if you think of it as set membership and "where" if you think of it as location. But thirteen times out of ten, I'd say "that."