Some guidance for learning Italian as an Intermediate

[CardiffGiant]

So I am on the doorstep to completing the Assimil course, and I have also completed several audio courses like Michel Thomas(the comprehensive beginner course and the advanced) as well as Pimsleur. I have begun transitioning over to native materials through podcasts, but I could use some guidance on how to most efficiently make gains, and what materials to use going forward. I have reviewed the materials list here, and have tried the FSI course, but that course didn't click with me. I am trying to focus my efforts on reading and listening, which is what is recommended by Steven Krashen for language learning. Anyway, I feel as though I will soon be losing the structure of the Assimil course and I could use some help formulating a plan of sorts in terms of materials , and what has been effective for others. (BTW I would guess that I am at a B1 level). Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[Speakeasy]

CardiffGiant, prospective congratulations on completing the Assimil Italian course! As you are most likely aware, there are very few "true" Intermediate Level courses which meet the specific needs of independent-learners. Nevertheless, you might wish to consider the suggestions that were identified in the following discussion thread:

Perfectionnement Italien or similar? -- LLORG, February 2016
https://forum.language-learners.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=2072

In addition, I found the following excellent recommendations buried in the "Master Resources" drawer.

Resources I've used personally and HIGHLY recommend:

For Italian:

-Youtube channel Italiano Automatico (and his free podcast, published every Monday, can download through iTunes). He made 300+ videos in Italian with both Italian AND English subtitles.

-The free podcast series called Podcast Italiano (and accompanying youtube channel). The advanced level podcasts are very informal and conversational with his friend and do not have a transcript while the more beginner ones have an accompanying text available on the website)

-"Veleno" a captivating 7 part podcast series available free on iTunes. If you go to the website, there is a full transcript for all episodes. It's a brilliant piece of investigative journalism about a real-life even that happened in Italy about 20 years ago; centered on a case of mass hysteria involving child-trafficking and satan-worship.

-"EfficaceMente" - the website, twitter feed, and youtube channel. Topic is personal growth. This is native content, not a "language learning" website, but it's a great source of articles for anyone looking to do some reading or listening comprehension in bite-sized chunks. It's also written/spoken in a fairly informal, conversational way.

-"News in Slow". If you go to the website, you can sample it. Current news reports spoken in a more slowed down way with accompanying text. There's a subscription fee, by you can download it as a podcast series to access some content for free (though without the text)

[CardiffGiant]

CardiffGiant

-Youtube channel Italiano Automatico (and his free podcast, published every Monday, can download through iTunes). He made 300+ videos in Italian with both Italian AND English subtitles.)

Thanks for the suggestions. Has anyone used the Italiano Automatico written materials? He has an audiobook and a separate course as well. Curious if anyone has tried them...

[garyb]

I agree with the great recommendations so far, especially StringerBell's list - everything in there sounds ideal for bridging the gap to "proper" native materials! I found Assimil's "Perfectionnement Italien" quite useful too, at least the first half before the lessons become too specialised, but I don't think there's an English-base version. FSI Italian is generally considered awful, which is a shame since its Spanish equivalent is well-made and useful.

At late B1 and early B2 level, I also found dubbed cartoons and Italian films with Italian subtitles very helpful, but straight after Assimil these might still be above your level.

[tastyonions]

If you're into history, you might enjoy "Alle otto della sera," a radio show from RAI:

https://www.raiplayradio.it/programmi/a ... dellasera/

It was the first Italian podcast I was able to fully understand and enjoy due to its relative ease compared with other native materials: single narrator, clear audio and speech, spoken relatively slowly.

[garyb]

Thanks for the suggestions. Has anyone used the Italiano Automatico written materials? He has an audiobook and a separate course as well. Curious if anyone has tried them...

Meant to reply to this in my previous reply! I've not used them, but having listened a lot to the podcast I'm fairly convinced that Alberto's courses are of good quality and he's put a great deal of time and effort into them. If I were at an earlier stage in my Italian journey I'd be tempted by them - "Conquista l'italiano" sounds like exactly what I'd want from an intermediate course - but I'd still seek out some honest reviews before spending the money.

[Speakeasy]

... FSI Italian is generally considered awful ...

As there is often a certain misconception concerning the “FSI Italian” courses, I think that it is important to clarify the matter …

The “FSI Italian Programmatic” is a very elementary course, designed for self-instruction, which will take the student to the CEFR A0 level. Although I had already completed Assimil Italian, it took me a total of 10 attempts to complete this course; not because of the difficulty of the language but because it was just so darned discouraging. Believe me, this course deserves its awful reputation; rumour has it that the author finished his career as an Elvis impersonator.

The “FSI Italian FAST” course is an in-depth introduction to Italian, designed for presentation in a classroom, with the potential of taking the student to the CEFR B1 level. It is on a par with the very best of the FSI/DLI courses. Unfortunately, owing to the awful reputation of the Programmatic course, many people associate the FAST course with the former. Due to the former's reputation, very few people members of LLORG and the HTLAL who have studied Italian have ever used the FAST course; they have been "frightened away" by the former's reputation. Although the FAST course does not employ the audio-lingual method, it does include a substantial quantity of practice materials.

I see two advantages for using FSI Italian FAST course in a “post-Assimil Italian” situation: (1) as the course is more in-depth than Assimil Italian, it serves as an excellent review of, and expansion of, the Assimil course, and (2) whereas the audio recordings of the Assimil course are delivered at an artificially slow cadence, those of FSI Italian FAST are delivered at a speed which reflects normal conversation between native speakers thereby providing an opportunity for aural/oral development. Nevertheless, I would still favour "Assimil Perfectionnement" plus native materials.

EDITED:
Typos, tinkering.

[garyb]

... FSI Italian is generally considered awful ...

As there is often a certain misconception concerning the “FSI Italian” courses, I think that it is important to clarify the matter …

Apologies for continuing the misconception by not being specific! I was referring to the Programmatic course, and I've never seen the FAST one.

[CardiffGiant]

... FSI Italian is generally considered awful ...

As there is often a certain misconception concerning the “FSI Italian” courses, I think that it is important to clarify the matter …

The “FSI Italian Programmatic” is a very elementary course, designed for self-instruction, which will take the student to the CEFR A0 level. Although I had already completed Assimil Italian, it took me a total of 10 attempts to complete this course; not because of the difficulty of the language but because it was just so darned discouraging. Believe me, this course deserves its awful reputation; rumour has it that the author finished his career as an Elvis impersonator.

The “FSI Italian FAST” course is an in-depth introduction to Italian, designed for presentation in a classroom, with the potential of taking the student to the CEFR B1 level. It is on a par with the very best of the FSI/DLI courses. Unfortunately, owing to the awful reputation of the Programmatic course, many people associate the FAST course with the former. Due to the former's reputation, very few people members of LLORG and the HTLAL who have studied Italian have ever used the FAST course; they have been "frightened away" by the former's reputation. Although the FAST course does not employ the audio-lingual method, it does include a substantial quantity of practice materials.

I see two advantages for using FSI Italian FAST course in a “post-Assimil Italian” situation: (1) as the course is more in-depth than Assimil Italian, it serves as an excellent review of, and expansion of, the Assimil course, and (2) whereas the audio recordings of the Assimil course are delivered at an artificially slow cadence, those of FSI Italian FAST are delivered at a speed which reflects normal conversation between native speakers thereby providing an opportunity for aural/oral development. Nevertheless, I would still favour "Assimil Perfectionnement" plus native materials.

EDITED:
Typos, tinkering.

Dumb question- Is Assimil Perfectionnement an Italian/French product? I do not speak French so I wanted to make sure that it would be useful to an English speaker.

[Speakeasy]

Dumb question- Is Assimil Perfectionnement an Italian/French product? I do not speak French so I wanted to make sure that it would be useful to an English speaker.

CardiffGiant, you have raised a significant point of concern which I do not wish to minimize. In my opinion, Assimil is missing a great business opportunity by not publishing many of their "second-level" courses in an English base and, unfortunately, their decision in this regard extends to their second-level Italian course which is available only from a French base and from a German one. In the “Perfectionnement Italien or similar?” discussion thread (see link above), kanewai and I commented as follows:

Assimil Perfectionnement Italien
Although it would require some additional effort, you could, indeed, learn something from studying the "Assimil Perfectionnement Italien" course. If you wish to advance to the Intermediate Level, at some point in your studies you will have to begin using "native materials" and simply "slug it out" like the rest of us. So then, you could approach "Perfectionnement Italien" as a collection "graded dialogues" for which a transcription is conveniently provided. So, with the aid of a dictionary and a simple grammar, you could use this course. Taking on such challenges, as my uncles used to assure me, would "make a man of ya, put hair on your chest!".

I've used a couple French-based Assimil courses. In general I really like learning a new language from an L2 base - I find I translate back into English much less in my head, and just let the language exist on it's own. And Assimil works really well when the base-language and target language are both in the Romance family. The biggest challenge with this approach is that some Assimil lessons are heavily idiomatic, and I won't understand the meaning either in French or in the target language…

I truly appreciate that using these materials would not be a walk in the park. For example, as kanewai rightly noted, “some Assimil lessons are heavily idiomatic.” However, at the Intermediate level, virtually all materials -- whether designed for study or designed for consumption by native-speakers -- are heavily idiomatic. We all have to cross the "highly idiomatic" bridge at some point in our studies. If you do not speak either French or German at High-Intermediate level, then using the Assimil Perfectionnement Italien course would be, as I suggested, like using "similar-to-native" materials that just happen to have a transcript. This wouldn’t be easy, but native materials without a transcript would be even harder.

EDITED:
Bizarre typos.