Efficacy of "stacking" programs

Ask specific questions about your target languages. Beginner questions welcome!
User avatar
drmweaver2
Yellow Belt
Posts: 78
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:42 pm
Languages: English (N), Russian (A1/A2), German (A1/A2)
Spanish(HS/college, maybe A2- now extinct), Japanese(lvl-0, even that's long forgotten), Thai (absolute beginner...not even A0)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=8997
x 153

Efficacy of "stacking" programs

Postby drmweaver2 » Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:40 pm

I've done a fair bit of reading about methods in terms of "return on investment". Persistence and repetition seem to be the overriding aspects discussed and/or researched.

I'm pretty sure that three audio-based courses (Glossika, Pimsleur, Assimil) do not overlap 100% with each other in terms of either dialogs, vocab or grammar points if you start each course on calendar Day 1. Considering each also "progresses" through similar material at different speeds as well as being intended for different rates of completion of their entire course(s) (ex., Glosskia Russian 1-3 versus Pimsleur Russian 1-4 [I don't know how long the Assimil Russian course 'lasts']).

I'm curious, though, about efficacy in language learning with regard to "stacking" all three, fairly similar, courses throughout a single day. For example, is there a gain or penalty for doing a Glossika course in the morning and a Pimsleur course in the afternoon? I can see there should be a benefit if you do Anki/SRS work relating to the words in either course that same day. But would the different vocab and grammar work in the same language interfere with or be a benefit to "stacking" like this.... (Not sure why I like the term "stacking" here. It just seems to fit.)

Is it a reasonable "process" to consider pursuing?
I AM doing other things as well but haven't reached the 1000-word usable vocabulary point yet.

Now consider adding a third session of audio-based work in the same language using the Assimil audio recordings after dinner/supper.

How would that affect efficiency in language learning? Would information overload be a factor that should be weighted heavily AGAINST doing so? Would the likelihood of additional vocab and different grammar emphasis argue against such a schedule?

Basically, has anyone tried this? How'd it work out?
What results did you/anyone you know that tried something like this get?

Looking forward to anyone and everyone's thoughts on this.
3 x
I'm going to read Lord of the Rings in Russian - Me (some time ago)
Never say something is impossible. Everytime, there is a moron who doesn't know it's impossible, so he goes and does it.-Cavesa -Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:45 pm

User avatar
Ani
Brown Belt
Posts: 1433
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:58 am
Location: Alaska
Languages: English (N), speaks French, Russian & Icelandic (beginner)
x 3840
Contact:

Re: Efficacy of "stacking" programs

Postby Ani » Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:46 am

It seems like you have a fair amount of free time & are in the stage where there isn't a whole lot to do besides courses so I think this is a reasonable option for you.

The risk is taking on too many courses and either not finishing, or wasting too much time in the beginner stages.

With Russian, as a monolingual beginner, you don't have much to worry about for the latter.

As long as you're enjoying the courses and you're not too overwhelmed to keep going, go for it.

Don't forget to mix it native materials, even in small doses. Netflix has some good Russian shows..
2 x
But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

User avatar
zenmonkey
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2528
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:21 pm
Location: California, Germany and France
Languages: Spanish, English, French trilingual - German (B2/C1) on/off study: Persian, Hebrew, Tibetan, Setswana.
Some knowledge of Italian, Portuguese, Ladino, Yiddish ...
Want to tackle Tzotzil, Nahuatl
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=859
x 7030
Contact:

Re: Efficacy of "stacking" programs

Postby zenmonkey » Sat Sep 22, 2018 7:15 am

You can either do the three at the same time or the three one after another.
Personally I like doing them in linear not parallel manner. And yes, it is useful to stack material.
0 x
I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar

User avatar
tarvos
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2889
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:13 am
Location: The Lowlands
Languages: Native: NL, EN
Professional: ES, RU
Speak well: DE, FR, RO, EO, SV
Speak reasonably: IT, ZH, PT, NO, EL, CZ
Need improvement: PO, IS, HE, JP, KO, HU, FI
Passive: AF, DK, LAT
Dabbled in: BRT, ZH (SH), BG, EUS, ZH (CAN), and a whole lot more.
Language Log: http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/fo ... PN=1&TPN=1
x 6093
Contact:

Re: Efficacy of "stacking" programs

Postby tarvos » Sat Sep 22, 2018 7:46 am

I prefer to do one set of material properly than three in parallel. The more focus, the better.
1 x
I hope your world is kind.

Is a girl.

Cainntear
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
Posts: 3469
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:04 am
Location: Scotland
Languages: English(N)
Advanced: French,Spanish, Scottish Gaelic
Intermediate: Italian, Catalan, Corsican
Basic: Welsh
Dabbling: Polish, Russian etc
x 8665
Contact:

Re: Efficacy of "stacking" programs

Postby Cainntear » Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:42 am

Glossika, Pimsleur and Assimil all aim to use repetition and recycling to reinforce language learned. Each of them plans these repetitions based on some notion of how much you can remember.

Doing all three at once interferes with that repetition, because you're interrupting it with more new material than the writers of each of the three courses think you're capable of remembering. Now I don't think any one of those courses is perfect (not a fan of Pimsleur, never tried Glossika, Assimil quality varies dramatically between languages) but there's some kind of truth in there, which means it's a bad idea to do all three in parallel.
5 x

白田龍
Orange Belt
Posts: 242
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:54 pm
Languages: English, Portuguese, Spanish, Catalan, French, Persian, Arabic, Mandarin, Japanese.
x 444

Re: Efficacy of "stacking" programs

Postby 白田龍 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:27 pm

Isn't everybody doing this already?
1 x

User avatar
Ani
Brown Belt
Posts: 1433
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:58 am
Location: Alaska
Languages: English (N), speaks French, Russian & Icelandic (beginner)
x 3840
Contact:

Re: Efficacy of "stacking" programs

Postby Ani » Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:10 pm

Cainntear wrote:Doing all three at once interferes with that repetition, because you're interrupting it with more new material than the writers of each of the three courses think you're capable of remembering. Now I don't think any one of those courses is perfect (not a fan of Pimsleur, never tried Glossika, Assimil quality varies dramatically between languages) but there's some kind of truth in there, which means it's a bad idea to do all three in parallel.


I'm really surprised to see you say this, and curious.

I understand that most people don't use these three programs in parallel, but I'd assume that was mostly because they're at pretty different levels.

If you have 5 hours a day to study an opaque language like the OP, how else would you do it?
5 hours of pimsleur would put me in a coma, five hours of Glossika breaks their SRS system and is just generally a terrible idea. Five hours of Assimil might be ok but totally breaks the method again. What else would you do with your time?
1 x
But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

User avatar
zenmonkey
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2528
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:21 pm
Location: California, Germany and France
Languages: Spanish, English, French trilingual - German (B2/C1) on/off study: Persian, Hebrew, Tibetan, Setswana.
Some knowledge of Italian, Portuguese, Ladino, Yiddish ...
Want to tackle Tzotzil, Nahuatl
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=859
x 7030
Contact:

Re: Efficacy of "stacking" programs

Postby zenmonkey » Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:07 pm

白田龍 wrote:Isn't everybody doing this already?



I usually stack a method with other tools in parallel (anki, wordlist, grammar study, listening, etc ...) and then move to the next method. I do study the same « level » with multiple methods in a linear manner.
0 x
I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar

User avatar
jeff_lindqvist
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
Posts: 3135
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2015 9:52 pm
Languages: sv, en
de, es
ga, eo
---
fi, yue, ro, tp, cy, kw, pt, sk
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2773
x 10462

Re: Efficacy of "stacking" programs

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:56 pm

I can't say what I usually do because it usually varies. However, assuming I have access to two (or more) kinds of material intended for the same target group (say, beginners), I see no harm in following the two in parallel*. I don't know which is best: if the approaches/(topics) are slightly similar or if they are slightly different. I probably wouldn't/couldn't do Pimsleur+Glossika+Assimil simultaneously, but any of the three + a dosis of shadowing now and then, some writing, some Anki, hey, even some deliberate grammar study.

If I ever stick to just one kind of material, it's probably because that's the only thing I have and/or if the approach focuses on a certain aspect which I also want to focus on.

* If I had to spend months with one material before being "allowed" to open the second course, I'd probably find the second one boring as hell, as I'd already know a great deal of the vocab+grammar.
2 x
Leabhair/Greannáin léite as Gaeilge: 9 / 18
Ar an seastán oíche: Oileán an Órchiste
Duolingo - finished trees: sp/ga/de/fr/pt/it
Finnish with extra pain : 100 / 100

Llorg Blog - Wiki - Discord

garyb
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1572
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:35 pm
Location: Scotland
Languages: Native: English
Advanced: Italian, French
Intermediate: Spanish
Beginner: German, Japanese
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1855
x 5992
Contact:

Re: Efficacy of "stacking" programs

Postby garyb » Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:55 am

I agree that it doesn't make sense to do several courses based on spaced repetition in parallel, but lots of lessons of one per day presents a similar problem and it does leave the question of what does one do with the rest of the time? Every so often we do get a beginner who has the summer off or something, has a good few hours per day to dedicate to language study, and wants to know how to make the most of that time. Unfortunately I don't think that studying a new language for five hours per day as a beginner is realistic unless it's quite close to one you already know, so it's a bit of a moot question, even if I always feel bad about saying so to somebody who has that rare combination of time and enthusiasm. I simply cannot take in any more than 30-60 minutes of material per day in something like Russian or Greek, which is just enough for one or two lessons of a typical course.

If I knew far enough in advance that I was going to have a few months off, I'd try to learn the basics beforehand so that when the extra free time did arrive I'd already have that foundation (the "usable vocabulary point" in the OP, although it's just as much about structure and being used to the sounds etc.) and be able to make the most of it.

When I started new Romance languages (French after Italian, then Spanish after French and Italian), I deliberately did so when I had a couple of weeks off work and could put in a good few hours per day to kick-start them. Several lessons of one course per day rather than several courses in parallel just felt like common sense to me: easier to follow one thing at a time and not let courses get in each others' way. I filled in the extra time with listening and reading. But in this situation (knowing similar languages and having already had lots of exposure to the new one), learning the basics is more a case of filling in gaps and becoming aware of differences and exceptions rather than learning something entirely new, so the amount of genuinely new information to take in per lesson was far less than a truly new language.
2 x


Return to “Practical Questions and Advice”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests