Mandarin - need help with a plan of attack

[eido]

This seems like an okay explanation. But I'm no linguist.

[Querneus]

If you happen to be American, imagine having to pronounce the "t" in "better" clearly all the time because flapping it was suddenly considered a hilarious-to-others marker of your low class.

Is this like pronouncing for as fur? I'm going for/fur a drive. I'm so guilty of that one. I've tried to clean it up, it's a personal pet peeve. I couldn't imagine having the general populous judging me by my mispronunciation even though I judge myself on that one pretty harshly. So if that's kind of what you're meaning, I totally get it.

Thanks for the links, I'll be checking them out.

Wait- so there are people that think pronouncing "for" as "fur" is bad? Pretty much all English dictionaries say you're supposed to pronounce "for" as "fur" (e.g. I'm going fur a drive, it's a language I study fur various reasons, etc.) unless you're stressing it (as in what are you doing that for?). For example, the Cambridge English Dictionary says:

US ​strong /fɔːr/ US weak /fɚ/

where /fɚ/ is linguist notation for "fur". Same goes for the American Heritage Dictionary:

(fôr; fər when unstressed)

Dictionary.com and English Wiktionary also concur.

Sounds like a mistaken pet-peeve to have.

[rdearman]

Then they are wrong. It isn't pronounced fur.

[mairzydoats]

Then they are wrong. It isn't pronounced fur.

In Pennsylvania it is, haha That's where I got it, from my dad who was from Pennsylvania. Most everyone in the family there pronounces it that way. But I agree, it is wrong to pronounce for as fur as opposed to four. For example, I would never say, "I got something fur you." that sounds horrible. Maybe because it's toward the end and so obvious. Also wouldn't say, "I'm not going to do that fur you." However, 'I'm gonna go fur sum'thin to eat, wanna come?" Is not only perhaps the laziest style of speech I have ever heard...did anyone else hear that in a mumble too? Yilch! But yea, I would absolutely put fur in there, because it's just so...lazy. However if I were speaking to anyone superior, like my boss, you bet that would be I'm going to go FOUR something to eat.....there are many reason for that I'm sure.....oh, there there "many reasons FOUR that....", I wouldn't say fur. Pronouncing for as fur is wrong, even in super slacky American English. However, if you wan to sound American...I guess it is used selectively (lazily) but it still is wrong. IMO of course.

[jonm]

Can confirm that for is commonly pronounced [fɚ] in unstressed positions in North American English. It's the normal pronunciation of unstressed for in my dialect (I grew up near Washington, DC) and in other regions where I've lived (the Northeast and the SF Bay Area), and a quick listen to YouTube videos confirms that it's quite widespread.

For example (and I would pronounce for as [fɚ] in that phrase) listen to Professor Arguelles talking about Assimil here. You can clearly hear [fɚ] rather than [fɔɹ] at 0m07s in "for teaching yourself foreign languages" (where, as it happens, you can contrast that [fɚ] with the [fɔɹ] in foreign). Also at 1m04s in "speak for themselves". At 1m13s, on the other hand, he's speaking a bit more slowly and he pronounces for as [fɔɹ].

Professor Arguelles tends to speak quite carefully, but if you listen to that video, you'll find examples of your or you're as [jɚ] rather than [jɔɹ], to as [tə] rather than [tu], of as [ə] rather than [əv] or [ʌv], and so on. (And you'll also find examples of the more careful pronunciation.) It's not wrong, it's just what happens in running speech, especially to frequent function words/phrases and especially when they're unstressed. This kind of reduction is pretty much universal in language.

The LDOCE Online has some more examples of [fɚ]: free-for-all, good-for-nothing and some of the other items listed here. The blue loudspeaker icon is the American pronunciation. Keep in mind that these are citation forms pronounced clearly.

As for fur, well, I would pronounce the beginning of this sentence [ɛz fɚ ˈfɚ], with no difference in vowel quality. But there might well be a difference in other varieties of English. For example, in some non-rhotic varieties of British English it might be [fə ˈfɜ].