Learning 2 languages

[zenmonkey]

My goal is to get to B1+ level in them and one day travel to France and Spain. My goal is to hopefully achieve a B1 level by the summer of 2020 and go then.

It really comes down to the hours of study/contact with the input in a target language. Counting the hours will help you keeping track of your progress and give you a rough idea about your progress. I would say that you need to put 700-1000 hours in each of those languages.

.. of continued study over a limited period of time. If you spread those 700 hrs over longer years you can double or triple the needed time. Learn, forget, relearn trap. Working on two languages makes that likelier.

[zenmonkey]

I appreciate the answers I have gotten so far. It looks like this might not be the route to go on. However, what type of path would you guys recommend for someone that eventually wants to reach a decent level in both languages one day? Again, the goal is B1 with self study I would be more than happy with.

The short answer, from my point of view, would be to work hard for 6 months at one language. See if you can manage that without too much desire for the other language and see where it gets you. Evaluate and adjust.

[rdearman]

Let me try to reshape the question in a totally different manner. Suppose an overweight couch potato you know suddenly announced that they were going to run an Iron-man contest. You'd be pretty sceptical of the chances of success right? They don't swim, run or bike but they've decided to do one of the most difficult things you could think of. This is kinda the question your asking us, and the reason so many people have told you that you should stick to one language at a time. Much like you'd probably tell this couch potato to just try to complete a 5K race before you sign-up for the Iron-man.

However, there have been before and will be again couch potatoes who complete Iron-man contests. But it isn't going to be easy. You're going to become so sick of Spanish and French that you'll want to throw the books away. There will be days when you don't want to train. Because that is what your proposing, to train yourself in two disciplines, like biking and marathon running at the same time. It will take an enormous amount of effort, scheduling and you'll have to train each and every day without fail.

This is why the sucess rate hasn't been good on the forum.

But let me reshape the question again. You have a friend who has successfully ran a sub-five-hour marathon and he suddenly announced that he was going to run an Iron-man contest. You'd be less sceptical since he already has a history of athletic success and obviously knows how to train, has an idea of the discipline and training requirements.

You might go from couch potato to ironman, but I think you should seriously consider getting one language under your belt first. I have heard of monolingual English speakers who've learned French in 3-6 months. I've also heard of unicorns, but I've never seen either of them. I'm not trying to put you off learning languages, I'm just trying to point out that contrary to popular belief it isn't magical, it is just really bloody hard work. Just like training for a marathon. Before I did my first marathon (26 miles) I ran well over 750 miles in training in the year leading up to it.

Whatever you decide to do, I wish you well.

[Skynet]

My goal is to get to B1+ level in them and one day travel to France and Spain. My goal is to hopefully achieve a B1 level by the summer of 2020 and go then.

It really comes down to the hours of study/contact with the input in a target language. Counting the hours will help you keeping track of your progress and give you a rough idea about your progress. I would say that you need to put 700-1000 hours in each of those languages.

DISCLAIMER: I studied French in high school before it atrophied exponentially over eleven years.

A 1000 hours for someone to get to B1 French/Spanish ? I think that is an astronomical amount of time! Perhaps to get to B2++/C1 yes, but not for an English native learning a Group 1 language.

If he used an Assimil New French With Ease (1998), a Lingaphone French (1950), a Cortina Conversational French in 20 Lessons (1954), French In Action and RFI's Le Journal en Francais Facile, he may reach it well before the end of 2019. The key here is: DAILY COMMITMENT.

I am currently making a mad dash to French B1 in just 9 weeks (and 660+ hours!!!). If you're interested, you can follow my log and see the feedback and support that I have received from this forum's helpful denizens.

My advice: choose ONE language, master it, forge a ring from the heart of Mount Doom and inscribe it in your newly-mastered language, then move to the next one.

[Theodisce]

My goal is to get to B1+ level in them and one day travel to France and Spain. My goal is to hopefully achieve a B1 level by the summer of 2020 and go then.

It really comes down to the hours of study/contact with the input in a target language. Counting the hours will help you keeping track of your progress and give you a rough idea about your progress. I would say that you need to put 700-1000 hours in each of those languages.

DISCLAIMER: I studied French in high school before it atrophied exponentially over eleven years.

A 1000 hours for someone to get to B1 French/Spanish ? I think that is an astronomical amount of time! Perhaps to get to B2++/C1 yes, but not for an English native learning a Group 1 language.

If he used an Assimil New French With Ease (1998), a Lingaphone French (1950), a Cortina Conversational French in 20 Lessons (1954), French In Action and RFI's Le Journal en Francais Facile, he may reach it well before the end of 2019. The key here is: DAILY COMMITMENT.

I am currently making a mad dash to French B1 in just 9 weeks (and 660+ hours!!!). If you're interested, you can follow my log and see the feedback and support that I have received from this forum's helpful denizens.

My advice: choose ONE language, master it, forge a ring from the heart of Mount Doom and inscribe it in your newly-mastered language, then move to the next one.

Well, for a person learning their first foreign language 700 to 1000 hours seems reasonable to me. Alliance Française estimates it takes 360-400 classroom hours to get to B1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_European_Framework_of_Reference_for_Languages#cite_ref-9. My guess is that those numbers have to be supplemented with at least 300 hours of input. There is some anecdotal evidence (on this forum and elsewhere) showing that higher levels require more time, at least with some approaches and taking into account individual circumstances. I think the more experience you have, the faster you can progress.

[StringerBell]

Kevin, you've gotten a lot of genuinely thoughtful advice here and rather than repeat anything that's already been said, I thought I'd give you a slightly different perspective.

Rather than asking "can I do it?" I think it's more useful to ask yourself, "what will it take for me to do it?"

In my opinion, the real learning starts to happen once you move out of language learning books like Assimil and Pimsleur and you start working with native content (for example, French TV shows, French articles on websites, comic books, novels, podcasts, etc... that were produced by and for native French speakers). Those language-learning books and CDs may help you to ask some basic questions and briefly discuss some superficial topics, but they do not prepare you to understand the litany of complex responses you will receive in real life. Those tools will teach you short snippets of how people "should speak" but not how people actually speak.

There are many supporters of exposing your brain to massive amounts of comprehensible input before speaking (Steven Krashen, Steve Kaufman, etc...) and others who like to speak from day one (Benny Lewis, Mezzofanti Guild, etc...) which of these strategies will you focus on?

The language learning books are a tool that give you a tiny taste of the language to help you transition into native content, but that transition will require A LOT of sustained, consistent effort. You'll likely have periods of time where things start clicking and you're excited that you can understand chunks of conversations, and other days where it feels like everything you knew previously has evaporated and you're back at square one. There may be days where you can understand everything you hear and can chat with ease but then other days where you've got a mouth full of marbles and a black hole for a brain when you try to string together a few words. My experience has been that language learning is not a linear process; it's more of a roller coaster ride where you eventually end up on a higher level than where you started. How will you deal with these frustrations to prevent yourself from quitting?

How much time do you have to dedicate to language learning, in terms of actual hours per day. How will that time be organized? How much of it will be passive listening, active listening, writing, reading, and speaking? By speaking I don't mean parroting back lines from a Pimsleur audio CD, but conversations with native speakers. Do you know someone who speaks French at a high level with whom you can talk? Will you use italki, conversation exchange, speaky, or some other platform to do a language exchange with someone who wants to learn English or will you pay a tutor to speak with you only in your target language?

Lastly, you've repeated that you want to reach a B1, but honestly that doesn't really mean anything (at least to me). What do you want to accomplish with these languages? Make deep and lasting friendships with language exchange partners, one day move abroad to France or Spain, or just be able to order in restaurants, ask for directions, be able to travel off the beaten path, and have some general chit chat during a trip? These very different goals will shape what you focus on being able to say and how much time you'll need to get there.

[Chung]

Hello everyone. This is my first time posting to the forums and I am glad to be a part of this forum!



I am 24 and I really want to be a polyglot. Right now I have a very burning passion to learn French and Spanish. My goal is to get to B1+ level in them and one day travel to France and Spain. My goal is to hopefully achieve a B1 level by the summer of 2020 and go then.

For me, I really do love learning both of these languages, but I have read from a lot of posts that most people recommend only learning 1 language at a time. But for me I have a strong desire to learn both. Some are saying do 2 years of study in one language and then move on to another. But My goal is to be a B1 in both French and Spanish in 2 years by the summer of 2020. I have mainly just used Pimsleur to learn the basics for now and have finished the first level of french and am almost done with the 1st level of Spanish. What I have done was I started with the french and entirely focused on that for a month, and when I hit a plateau I would take a break. But instead of just taking a break and doing nothing I decided to learn Spanish and did several of the lessons on Pimsleur for, again, another month. Then I went back and brushed up on what I learned already and was able to bust through the plateau from French. The same thing applied when I hit a plateau in Spanish and came back to it again I busted through it too. I have have found this helpful when needing to take a break from a language and work on another rather than just not learn at all.

My goal is to be a polyglot and be at a B1+ level in both French and Spanish.

My question is, is it okay to learn both? Would it be fine to maybe focus on one for 4-6 weeks and then switch to the other for another 4-6? I find this helpful to not burn out in one language, and when I come back to it later I often am able to progress. Would you say this is okay to continue doing? Or would you recommend me focusing on just one language?


Also, one another quick question. The resources I am using for both French and Spanish are Pimsleur levels 1-5, Assimil, Teach yourself, Schaum's grammar outline, and the FSI. I plan to do all of those in order, as well as the Using French Assimil as well. Do you think these resources combined with practice speaking with someone will get to a B1 level?


Thank you guys!

Iguanamon and Speakeasy have pretty much covered the bulk of what I'd say. Keep cool, pick one and run with it for 6 months, and see how you feel after that. I think that it's feasible for someone like you to reach at least CEFR A2 in 6 months of regular but not excessive study (say an average of about one hour per day, and maybe 1.5 hours on each of Saturday and Sunday divided into two 45-minute halves: one before lunch, one before supper) using all the freebies out there (hint: the DLI Headstart courses for French and Spanish (3 variants based on geography) are superior alternatives to the respective full courses by Pimsleur for those languages), although you've already shelled out for some learning material already.

Alternating languages every 4 to 6 weeks doesn't sound bad but since you're practically still a monoglot, there's a real risk that whatever you had learned in 4 to 6 weeks of studying the first language will have been forgotten or noticeably overriden/degraded by what you've studied in the second language over the following 4 to 6 weeks. It doesn't help your cause that French and Spanish are fairly similar, and your command in either language just won't be strong enough in either language for some time to keep interference at an acceptably low level.

The nearest experience that I've had to yours is many years ago when I started learning Croatian while working on Polish. At times I had difficulty keeping the languages apart and I was doing this as a full-time working stiff by day, so my motivation to study something varied from one day to the next. As I see it, the differences between my experience and what you want to do are the following:

1) I was a high-beginner in Polish at that time, and already had got experience learning other languages on my own in the preceding years (and was no longer a monoglot).
2) I began learning Croatian once I had resolved to travel to Croatia within 6 months (including booking plane tickets). There was an obvious goal for me but...
3) ...I wasn't interested in learning it to that high of a level. The concrete steps for learning were to complete "Teach Yourself Croatian" and "Introduction to the Croatian and Serbian Language" before taking off, and then see what would happen. I didn't worry about Pimsleur, FSI or other courses.

Looking back, I wouldn't have taken on Croatian while also studying Polish without that trip to Croatia in mind. There was the interference that I had to deal with, and the fact that Polish was much more accessible to me since I had been going at it for a longer time and had Polish friends with whom I regularly met or chatted.

At certain points in your studies, it'd be worthwhile getting a certain sense (mainly in reading/listening comprehension, and writing) of how much you're retaining by taking practice exams at the desired level (A1, A2 etc.) of DELF (French) or DELE (Spanish). You can find plenty of links to legally-available copies of practice exams in Google using "DELF", "DELE", "sample exam", "mock exam", "practice test" and similar. You could also buy workbooks of practice exams but I think that this would be more suitable if you were to end up registering for an exam to certify your knowledge.

[Cainntear]

I appreciate the answers I have gotten so far. It looks like this might not be the route to go on. However, what type of path would you guys recommend for someone that eventually wants to reach a decent level in both languages one day? Again, the goal is B1 with self study I would be more than happy with.

I don't like to study two languages simultaneously at the same level. That means never starting two languages simultaneously. Why not? Because then you're likely to be studying very similar material in both languages, which opens up a lot of potential confusion. This is even more a problem when the languages are closely related, because the order of teaching and the material itself is likely to be very, very similar.


I would say to start one, then later start on another, once you've got a good six months or a year under your belt.

[Skynet]

Hello everyone. This is my first time posting to the forums and I am glad to be a part of this forum!



I am 24 and I really want to be a polyglot. Right now I have a very burning passion to learn French and Spanish. My goal is to get to B1+ level in them and one day travel to France and Spain. My goal is to hopefully achieve a B1 level by the summer of 2020 and go then.

For me, I really do love learning both of these languages, but I have read from a lot of posts that most people recommend only learning 1 language at a time. But for me I have a strong desire to learn both. Some are saying do 2 years of study in one language and then move on to another. But My goal is to be a B1 in both French and Spanish in 2 years by the summer of 2020. I have mainly just used Pimsleur to learn the basics for now and have finished the first level of french and am almost done with the 1st level of Spanish. What I have done was I started with the french and entirely focused on that for a month, and when I hit a plateau I would take a break. But instead of just taking a break and doing nothing I decided to learn Spanish and did several of the lessons on Pimsleur for, again, another month. Then I went back and brushed up on what I learned already and was able to bust through the plateau from French. The same thing applied when I hit a plateau in Spanish and came back to it again I busted through it too. I have have found this helpful when needing to take a break from a language and work on another rather than just not learn at all.

My goal is to be a polyglot and be at a B1+ level in both French and Spanish.

My question is, is it okay to learn both? Would it be fine to maybe focus on one for 4-6 weeks and then switch to the other for another 4-6? I find this helpful to not burn out in one language, and when I come back to it later I often am able to progress. Would you say this is okay to continue doing? Or would you recommend me focusing on just one language?


Also, one another quick question. The resources I am using for both French and Spanish are Pimsleur levels 1-5, Assimil, Teach yourself, Schaum's grammar outline, and the FSI. I plan to do all of those in order, as well as the Using French Assimil as well. Do you think these resources combined with practice speaking with someone will get to a B1 level?


Thank you guys!

Iguanamon and Speakeasy have pretty much covered the bulk of what I'd say. Keep cool, pick one and run with it for 6 months, and see how you feel after that. I think that it's feasible for someone like you to reach at least CEFR A2 in 6 months of regular but not excessive study (say an average of about one hour per day, and maybe 1.5 hours on each of Saturday and Sunday divided into two 45-minute halves: one before lunch, one before supper) using all the freebies out there (hint: the DLI Headstart courses for French and Spanish (3 variants based on geography) are superior alternatives to the respective full courses by Pimsleur for those languages), although you've already shelled out for some learning material already.

Alternating languages every 4 to 6 weeks doesn't sound bad but since you're practically still a monoglot, there's a real risk that whatever you had learned in 4 to 6 weeks of studying the first language will have been forgotten or noticeably overriden/degraded by what you've studied in the second language over the following 4 to 6 weeks. It doesn't help your cause that French and Spanish are fairly similar, and your command in either language just won't be strong enough in either language for some time to keep interference at an acceptably low level.

The nearest experience that I've had to yours is many years ago when I started learning Croatian while working on Polish. At times I had difficulty keeping the languages apart and I was doing this as a full-time working stiff by day, so my motivation to study something varied from one day to the next. As I see it, the differences between my experience and what you want to do are the following:

1) I was a high-beginner in Polish at that time, and already had got experience learning other languages on my own in the preceding years (and was no longer a monoglot).
2) I began learning Croatian once I had resolved to travel to Croatia within 6 months (including booking plane tickets). There was an obvious goal for me but...
3) ...I wasn't interested in learning it to that high of a level. The concrete steps for learning were to complete "Teach Yourself Croatian" and "Introduction to the Croatian and Serbian Language" before taking off, and then see what would happen. I didn't worry about Pimsleur, FSI or other courses.

Looking back, I wouldn't have taken on Croatian while also studying Polish without that trip to Croatia in mind. There was the interference that I had to deal with, and the fact that Polish was much more accessible to me since I had been going at it for a longer time and had Polish friends with whom I regularly met or chatted.

At certain points in your studies, it'd be worthwhile getting a certain sense (mainly in reading/listening comprehension, and writing) of how much you're retaining by taking practice exams at the desired level (A1, A2 etc.) of DELF (French) or DELE (Spanish). You can find plenty of links to legally-available copies of practice exams in Google using "DELF", "DELE", "sample exam", "mock exam", "practice test" and similar. You could also buy workbooks of practice exams but I think that this would be more suitable if you were to end up registering for an exam to certify your knowledge.

Firstly, let me congratulate you on the long list of languages that you have there! Most impressive indeed! At what level would you place your French and German capabilities?

Secondly, I concur with you that DLI Headstart courses are surely preferable to Pimsleur all-audio courses. I would also suggest that he looks at the DLI Basic courses too, since the French one has impressed me thus far and is more exciting than FSI's Basic course.

[devilyoudont]

Something that first time adult language learners often do not realize is that by learning 1 language, you get faster at learning languages in general. This isn't just because of learning about a feature of Spanish that also exists in French. By choosing a language and actually learning that language by itself for a while, you will also learn how to learn a language. Not as abstract knowledge, but how to apply that knowledge in a way that works for you.

You won't have to go thru learning how to apply other people's methods to your own life with your third language. If you learn both languages at the same time, neither language will get the benefit of that knowledge. So, tho it is counterintuitive, you actually will save time by choosing one language to study first.