Learning 2 languages

Ask specific questions about your target languages. Beginner questions welcome!
User avatar
Dylan95
Orange Belt
Posts: 198
Joined: Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:11 pm
Location: USA
Languages: English (N)
Currently Studying
Russian C1
Uzbek B1
Ukrainian B1~

Previously Studied and mostly forgotten
French
Italian
Latin
x 399

Re: Learning 2 languages

Postby Dylan95 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:40 am

Someone has probably already suggested this, but if I were you I would learn one of them up to B1-B2 and only at that point begin the next language. I don't think it would be a good idea to learn two languages from scratch simultaneously, especially ones of the same group. If you get one up to a high enough level, learning the next one will be a piece of cake as far as learning language goes. You gave yourself a nice realistic time frame for those goals. I just wouldn't recommend starting both from scratch at the same time.
2 x

User avatar
Chung
Blue Belt
Posts: 529
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:39 pm
Languages: SPEAKS: English*, French
STUDIES: Hungarian, Italian, Ukrainian
OTHER: Czech, German, Polish, Slovak
STUDIED: Azeri, BCMS/SC, Estonian, Finnish, Korean, Latin, Northern Saami, Russian, Slovenian, Turkish
DABBLED: Bashkir, Chuvash, Crimean Tatar, Inari Saami, Kazakh, Kyrgyz, Latvian, Lithuanian, Meadow Mari, Mongolian, Romanian, Tatar, Turkmen, Tuvan, Uzbek
x 2309

Re: Learning 2 languages

Postby Chung » Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:33 pm

Skynet wrote:
Chung wrote:
Kevin wrote:Hello everyone. This is my first time posting to the forums and I am glad to be a part of this forum!



I am 24 and I really want to be a polyglot. Right now I have a very burning passion to learn French and Spanish. My goal is to get to B1+ level in them and one day travel to France and Spain. My goal is to hopefully achieve a B1 level by the summer of 2020 and go then.

For me, I really do love learning both of these languages, but I have read from a lot of posts that most people recommend only learning 1 language at a time. But for me I have a strong desire to learn both. Some are saying do 2 years of study in one language and then move on to another. But My goal is to be a B1 in both French and Spanish in 2 years by the summer of 2020. I have mainly just used Pimsleur to learn the basics for now and have finished the first level of french and am almost done with the 1st level of Spanish. What I have done was I started with the french and entirely focused on that for a month, and when I hit a plateau I would take a break. But instead of just taking a break and doing nothing I decided to learn Spanish and did several of the lessons on Pimsleur for, again, another month. Then I went back and brushed up on what I learned already and was able to bust through the plateau from French. The same thing applied when I hit a plateau in Spanish and came back to it again I busted through it too. I have have found this helpful when needing to take a break from a language and work on another rather than just not learn at all.

My goal is to be a polyglot and be at a B1+ level in both French and Spanish.

My question is, is it okay to learn both? Would it be fine to maybe focus on one for 4-6 weeks and then switch to the other for another 4-6? I find this helpful to not burn out in one language, and when I come back to it later I often am able to progress. Would you say this is okay to continue doing? Or would you recommend me focusing on just one language?


Also, one another quick question. The resources I am using for both French and Spanish are Pimsleur levels 1-5, Assimil, Teach yourself, Schaum's grammar outline, and the FSI. I plan to do all of those in order, as well as the Using French Assimil as well. Do you think these resources combined with practice speaking with someone will get to a B1 level?


Thank you guys!

Iguanamon and Speakeasy have pretty much covered the bulk of what I'd say. Keep cool, pick one and run with it for 6 months, and see how you feel after that. I think that it's feasible for someone like you to reach at least CEFR A2 in 6 months of regular but not excessive study (say an average of about one hour per day, and maybe 1.5 hours on each of Saturday and Sunday divided into two 45-minute halves: one before lunch, one before supper) using all the freebies out there (hint: the DLI Headstart courses for French and Spanish (3 variants based on geography) are superior alternatives to the respective full courses by Pimsleur for those languages), although you've already shelled out for some learning material already.

Alternating languages every 4 to 6 weeks doesn't sound bad but since you're practically still a monoglot, there's a real risk that whatever you had learned in 4 to 6 weeks of studying the first language will have been forgotten or noticeably overriden/degraded by what you've studied in the second language over the following 4 to 6 weeks. It doesn't help your cause that French and Spanish are fairly similar, and your command in either language just won't be strong enough in either language for some time to keep interference at an acceptably low level.

The nearest experience that I've had to yours is many years ago when I started learning Croatian while working on Polish. At times I had difficulty keeping the languages apart and I was doing this as a full-time working stiff by day, so my motivation to study something varied from one day to the next. As I see it, the differences between my experience and what you want to do are the following:

1) I was a high-beginner in Polish at that time, and already had got experience learning other languages on my own in the preceding years (and was no longer a monoglot).
2) I began learning Croatian once I had resolved to travel to Croatia within 6 months (including booking plane tickets). There was an obvious goal for me but...
3) ...I wasn't interested in learning it to that high of a level. The concrete steps for learning were to complete "Teach Yourself Croatian" and "Introduction to the Croatian and Serbian Language" before taking off, and then see what would happen. I didn't worry about Pimsleur, FSI or other courses.

Looking back, I wouldn't have taken on Croatian while also studying Polish without that trip to Croatia in mind. There was the interference that I had to deal with, and the fact that Polish was much more accessible to me since I had been going at it for a longer time and had Polish friends with whom I regularly met or chatted.

At certain points in your studies, it'd be worthwhile getting a certain sense (mainly in reading/listening comprehension, and writing) of how much you're retaining by taking practice exams at the desired level (A1, A2 etc.) of DELF (French) or DELE (Spanish). You can find plenty of links to legally-available copies of practice exams in Google using "DELF", "DELE", "sample exam", "mock exam", "practice test" and similar. You could also buy workbooks of practice exams but I think that this would be more suitable if you were to end up registering for an exam to certify your knowledge.


Firstly, let me congratulate you on the long list of languages that you have there! Most impressive indeed! At what level would you place your French and German capabilities?

Secondly, I concur with you that DLI Headstart courses are surely preferable to Pimsleur all-audio courses. I would also suggest that he looks at the DLI Basic courses too, since the French one has impressed me thus far and is more exciting than FSI's Basic course.


Ah, it's nothing special and that list just gives a clue about my linguistic interests. I should add that within the list of languages studied I've studied some more than others. For example, my study of Russian consists of completing "Oxford Take off in Russian" and "The New Penguin Russian Course" in about 6 months. On the other hand my study of Polish consists of completing "Cześć, jak się masz?", "Z polskim na ty", "First-Year Polish", "Intermediate Polish", some work with "Kiedyś wrócisz tu... cz. I." and "Beginning Polish", attending Polish 101 at my university, and some practical exposure through regular visits to Poland or hanging out with Polish friends anywhere.

My French is probably around B2 or C1 thanks to many years of schooling but I've never taken a certification exam. It's good enough for professional purposes, and I've done interviews in French and dealt with French clientele on the fly without a problem. My German is probably around B1, but as is common with a lot of those who learn foreign languages, my passive abilities are better than my active ones. On a very good day, my active capabilities are at B1, and it depends not only on my state of mind but also the environment. My comfort using German is understandably a lot greater after spending about a week in Germany or Austria rather than being cooped up on the other side of the pond for months on end.

The old DLI Headstart courses vary in quality and useability. The ones for French, Italian and Spanish are quite good in my view since they're not so heavy on military topics yet (over)loaded with exercises designed to teach military personnel the basics of a language when off-duty. In the Italian Headstart course, I'm right now working on the unit about shopping and have already learned some basic phrases and vocabulary relevant for buying shoes and groceries. The one for German is not quite as good for us civilians in my view since it spends more time teaching phrases and vocabulary while on duty (e.g. "How far is it to the rifle range?", "The supply point is 5 km north of headquarters"). The one for Norwegian has a lot less material and fewer exercises - a bit disappointing, actually.
4 x

User avatar
Serpent
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
Posts: 3657
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:54 am
Location: Moskova
Languages: heritage
Russian (native); Belarusian, Polish

fluent or close: Finnish (certified C1), English; Portuguese, Spanish, German, Italian
learning: Croatian+, Ukrainian; Romanian, Galician; Danish, Swedish; Estonian
exploring: Latin, Karelian, Catalan, Dutch, Czech, Latvian
x 5179
Contact:

Re: Learning 2 languages

Postby Serpent » Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:02 pm

We also have this wikia page: https://learnanylanguage.wikia.com/wiki ... me_time%3F
If you want to become a polyglot, maybe now is a good time to dabble in multiple languages. Let the charm of the beginner stage fade away. Then begin to settle down :D

Do you happen to be a false beginner in French/Spanish? Also, where are you from and how serious are those 2020 plans? I guess if you're in North America or Australia/New Zealand, it makes sense to combine your visits to France and Spain. But no matter where you are, if you'd like to practise with native speakers you can probably find opportunities in person or online.
4 x
LyricsTraining now has Finnish and Polish :)
Corrections welcome

Kevin
White Belt
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:34 pm
Languages: English (N)
x 26

Re: Learning 2 languages

Postby Kevin » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:48 pm

Thank you to all of the incredible Answers!! This is a great forum and I will indeed be focusing on one language and that will be french to start with. Thank you all for your help!
6 x

User avatar
Xenops
Brown Belt
Posts: 1444
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:33 pm
Location: Boston
Languages: English (N), Danish (A2), Japanese (rusty), Nansha (constructing)
On break: Japanese (approx. N4), Norwegian (A2)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=16797
x 3559
Contact:

Re: Learning 2 languages

Postby Xenops » Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:31 am

Kevin wrote:Thank you to all of the incredible Answers!! This is a great forum and I will indeed be focusing on one language and that will be french to start with. Thank you all for your help!


Be sure to start a log, too. :D
2 x
Check out my comic at: https://atannan.com/

Cavesa
Black Belt - 4th Dan
Posts: 4960
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:46 am
Languages: Czech (N), French (C2) English (C1), Italian (C1), Spanish, German (C1)
x 17565

Re: Learning 2 languages

Postby Cavesa » Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:01 am

I'd like to join the chorus of people recommending starting with one language in your case, even though I find it absolutely normal to be learning 2 in general.

1. Learning the second romance language is much easier, if you already know one well (I'd say B1 or B2 is ok). So, starting them both at the same time basically robs of you of this advantage as both will be your first ones. Plus there is the huge issue of learning how to learn a language, which others have described perfectly.

2.The beginner stuff is sometimes boring. Why risk being bored by starting two languages, if you can get one of them to the level of having more fun before starting the other? :-D

3.I don't think the "I want to be a polyglot" kind of motivation is a good one. Sure, there is the initial charm of the amazing world of language learning, all the inspiration by people like Chung, and so on. But then you get to the reality and you are likely to find out you don't really want to learn some of the languages (for example, you find out you hate to learn foreign scripts, or perhaps the complex conjugation systems bore you to tears, and so on), and you don't have time for others and have to devote yourself to stuff like a job or a family too. A better path for most people is simply wanting to speak a particular language. And then it suddenly grows and you are learning your sixth language, because it is just so much fun and you can't imagine your future without all the five before and this one! :-D

Sure, some people can just aim for the polyglottery prize or add several languages at once. But most of us simply cannot and there is nothing wrong about that. And it doesn't mean we cannot end up speaking a dozen languages anyways, if we keep investing time and efforts into this project and keep wanting "just one more". :-)
11 x

User avatar
Serpent
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
Posts: 3657
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:54 am
Location: Moskova
Languages: heritage
Russian (native); Belarusian, Polish

fluent or close: Finnish (certified C1), English; Portuguese, Spanish, German, Italian
learning: Croatian+, Ukrainian; Romanian, Galician; Danish, Swedish; Estonian
exploring: Latin, Karelian, Catalan, Dutch, Czech, Latvian
x 5179
Contact:

Re: Learning 2 languages

Postby Serpent » Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:14 pm

Kevin wrote:My goal is to get to B1+ level in them and one day travel to France and Spain. My goal is to hopefully achieve a B1 level by the summer of 2020 and go then.
Let me describe a possible outcome. Nothing personal.

Let's say you come to Barcelona, have a great time, practise your Spanish, get fascinated by Catalan.
After spending a week there, you go to Paris. Spanish is still buzzing in your head, you keep remembering Spanish (and maybe even Catalan) words instead of French. You use Spanish grammar too sometimes. You do get some practice, but sometimes people switch to English, and sometimes you switch to English and feel like you've forgotten French. You feel resentful and start complaining that Paris is dirty and French people are rude.
When you come home, you decide to drop French and start learning Catalan. By now you feel like you understand Catalan much better than French.

I'm not saying this is what will happen, but the possibility is real. You didn't say where you're from but I assume it's not the UK or Ireland. You should do a lot of preparation at home to avoid the outcome I described. If you're from the USA, you can practise both Spanish and French without having to cross the Atlantic. You need to learn to think in both languages (without translating from English), and you need to switch between them.

You also need to prepare for the non-linguistic aspects of your trip (and we do have a travel subforum :))
As you can see I'm not learning French, but this post sounds reasonable to me. (that's not an endorsement of Benny's "speak from day 1" method or of everything he says, I do disagree with him a lot but I liked this specific post)
3 x
LyricsTraining now has Finnish and Polish :)
Corrections welcome

User avatar
IronMike
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2554
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 6:13 am
Location: Northern Virginia
Languages: Studying: Esperanto
Maintaining: nada
Tested:
BCS, 1+L/1+R (DLPT5, 2022)
Russian, 3/3 (DLPT5, 2022) 2+ (OPI, 2022)
German, 2L/1+R (DLPT5, 2021)
Italian, 1L/2R (DLPT IV, 2019)
Esperanto, C1 (KER skriba ekzameno, 2017)
Slovene, 2+L/3R (DLPT II in, yes, 1999)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5189
x 7265
Contact:

Re: Learning 2 languages

Postby IronMike » Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:08 pm

rdearman wrote:Let me try to reshape the question in a totally different manner. Suppose an overweight couch potato you know suddenly announced that they were going to run an Iron-man contest. You'd be pretty sceptical of the chances of success right? They don't swim, run or bike but they've decided to do one of the most difficult things you could think of. This is kinda the question your asking us, and the reason so many people have told you that you should stick to one language at a time. Much like you'd probably tell this couch potato to just try to complete a 5K race before you sign-up for the Iron-man.


Your analogy made me think of this shirt, which I happened to see one guy wearing this weekend at an event I was participating in.

Image
7 x
You're not a C1 (or B1 or whatever) if you haven't tested.
CEFR --> ILR/DLPT equivalencies
My swimming life.
My reading life.

User avatar
reineke
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
Posts: 3570
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:34 pm
Languages: Fox (C4)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=6979
x 6554

Re: Learning 2 languages

Postby reineke » Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:49 pm

In HS I had to study four languages. Since you were so easily convinced, maybe it's a good idea to start with a single language.
1 x

User avatar
tarvos
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2889
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:13 am
Location: The Lowlands
Languages: Native: NL, EN
Professional: ES, RU
Speak well: DE, FR, RO, EO, SV
Speak reasonably: IT, ZH, PT, NO, EL, CZ
Need improvement: PO, IS, HE, JP, KO, HU, FI
Passive: AF, DK, LAT
Dabbled in: BRT, ZH (SH), BG, EUS, ZH (CAN), and a whole lot more.
Language Log: http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/fo ... PN=1&TPN=1
x 6093
Contact:

Re: Learning 2 languages

Postby tarvos » Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:20 pm

Same here. I studied several languages in high school, it's definitely possible...
2 x
I hope your world is kind.

Is a girl.


Return to “Practical Questions and Advice”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests