Training your ear/mouth for a specific dialect

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kulaputra
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Training your ear/mouth for a specific dialect

Postby kulaputra » Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:46 pm

In the study of your L2s, how do you guys approach various dialects of a language? In particular:

1. Is it better to listen to many hours of a single dialect over weeks/months before switching to another? Or is it better to listen to them concurrently?
2. Do you focus on only being able to produce one dialect while being able to understand others, or do you try to produce multiple dialects separately (i.e. be able to fluidly code switch), or do you just let all the dialects mix?
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Iha śāriputra: rūpaṃ śūnyatā śūnyataiva rūpaṃ; rūpān na pṛthak śūnyatā śunyatāyā na pṛthag rūpaṃ; yad rūpaṃ sā śūnyatā; ya śūnyatā tad rūpaṃ.

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Jaleel10
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Re: Training your ear/mouth for a specific dialect

Postby Jaleel10 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:36 pm

I wanted to ask this very question a week ago :D I just did not know how to put it in words.

Piggy-backing on your post. An interesting question for those studying, speaking or have any experience Spanish. I am currently trying to improve my listening skills and someone recommend that I practice with Andalusian accents (which, for those who don't know Spanish, it is one of the hardest accents in the Spanish speaking world.) This is what my friend said
Since you will be exposing your ears to fast speech with incompletely enunciated words, your brain will eventually learn to fill in the blanks as needed. This skill will carry over to other similar speakers like Cubans and Venezuelans. Many Latin American accents will sound much clearer and slower in comparison after a while.


I kind of want to turn this into an 'experiment'. Would be very interested to see the results. There is a treasure trove of content to watch in Andalusian Spanish.
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kulaputra
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Re: Training your ear/mouth for a specific dialect

Postby kulaputra » Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:01 pm

Jaleel10 wrote:I wanted to ask this very question a week ago :D I just did not know how to put it in words.

Piggy-backing on your post. An interesting question for those studying, speaking or have any experience Spanish. I am currently trying to improve my listening skills and someone recommend that I practice with Andalusian accents (which, for those who don't know Spanish, it is one of the hardest accents in the Spanish speaking world.) This is what my friend said
Since you will be exposing your ears to fast speech with incompletely enunciated words, your brain will eventually learn to fill in the blanks as needed. This skill will carry over to other similar speakers like Cubans and Venezuelans. Many Latin American accents will sound much clearer and slower in comparison after a while.


I kind of want to turn this into an 'experiment'. Would be very interested to see the results. There is a treasure trove of content to watch in Andalusian Spanish.


I do think listening to Andalusian Spanish will help with many American dialects but not so much for that reason. Rather, there are clear similarities between Andalusian (and Canarian Spanish) and many dialects of the Americans. I've read that this is because most of the explorers, conquistadores, and settlers who first came to the New World originated from those regions, via the Puerto de Indias of Seville. Concretely:

  • Most Andalusian dialects and (nearly) all American dialects have seseo
  • Most Andalusian dialects and several American dialects (especially Caribbean and other coastal dialects- so-called "Lowland Spanish") debuccalize [s] into [h] in syllable coda. They may further drop the [h] altogether word-finally.
  • Deletion of final or intervocalic [d]

All of this producing utterances like ¿cómo ehtá uhté?

That said, while many phonetic and grammatical features are shared, the slang can vary dramatically even between neighboring Latin American countries, and of course between Andalusia and any Latin American country, so you won't get much mileage there.
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Iha śāriputra: rūpaṃ śūnyatā śūnyataiva rūpaṃ; rūpān na pṛthak śūnyatā śunyatāyā na pṛthag rūpaṃ; yad rūpaṃ sā śūnyatā; ya śūnyatā tad rūpaṃ.

--Heart Sutra

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Re: Training your ear/mouth for a specific dialect

Postby Jaleel10 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:28 pm

Ah, makes sense. And thank you so much for the information given. Most of which I had no idea about. Thanks for always helping me, kulaputra. :)

Hopefully your post will garner some good answers, sorry for barging in :P
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Re: Training your ear/mouth for a specific dialect

Postby eido » Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:37 pm

I am not an expert with learning dialects, but as I try to learn equally about Spain Spanish and South American Spanish, I almost always mix them. Probably because in class we were taught to make the sounds of the latter, so making the sounds of the former is difficult to do without thought. It's a fun mix, actually.
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Re: Training your ear/mouth for a specific dialect

Postby kulaputra » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:05 pm

Jaleel10 wrote:Hopefully your post will garner some good answers, sorry for barging in :P


You're not barging in. I'm interested in people's approaches to dialects in general, so feel free to contribute anything germane to the subject whether it concerns my two specific questions or not.
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Iha śāriputra: rūpaṃ śūnyatā śūnyataiva rūpaṃ; rūpān na pṛthak śūnyatā śunyatāyā na pṛthag rūpaṃ; yad rūpaṃ sā śūnyatā; ya śūnyatā tad rūpaṃ.

--Heart Sutra

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Re: Training your ear/mouth for a specific dialect

Postby zenmonkey » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:03 pm

kulaputra wrote:In the study of your L2s, how do you guys approach various dialects of a language? In particular:

1. Is it better to listen to many hours of a single dialect over weeks/months before switching to another? Or is it better to listen to them concurrently?
2. Do you focus on only being able to produce one dialect while being able to understand others, or do you try to produce multiple dialects separately (i.e. be able to fluidly code switch), or do you just let all the dialects mix?


I don’t know what’s better but I have different strategies for different languages. But overall, if there is enough material I will tend to stick to a high register, ‘standard’ dialect. For French some of the language variants I treat like an accent and just learned them (and a little vocabulary) later. Others I treat like a complete new language with a systematic approach. German I’ve really only focused one one pronunciation (even eliminating material that was too Berlin influenced) and then when I began to reach a B1 level I started getting interesting into a richer tonal variety. Now I’m getting good at identifying a specific regions from speech patterns.
For other languages I don’t care because I take the material I have. Hebrew I had a Russian teacher and a sefardí exchange partner. They were ok for a while but I now focus on this with an older Israeli woman who nitpicks my pronunciation. It’s great.
For rarer language I take what I can get. I’ll deal with it, if I stick to it.

By the way - in Mexico we pronounce the ‘s’ and final ‘d’ - /usted/.
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Re: Training your ear/mouth for a specific dialect

Postby NoManches » Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:59 am

This is a great question.

I like the approach where you learn to produce one dialect and learn to understand the others. For the longest time I avoided Spanish from Spain (and other "hard accents") and I really regret it. I wish early on I had exposed myself to a wide variety of dialects and accents while putting an emphasis on Mexican Spanish. The transition would have been much smoother if I had listened to "a little bit of everything" on top of a main dialect, instead of focusing on one at a time. Something interesting: I've talked with people (in English) who use American and British expressions/vocabulary at the same time, and although it isn't really confusing, it's a little strange. I understand them perfectly fine but it throws me off and can be distracting because instead of listening to what they're saying, I find myself trying to pinpoint their accent in English or catch instances where they switch between English from the US vs Britain.


I'm at a point now where I can basically understand every accent in Spanish, but I use a ton of Mexican slang and expressions. I do however, find some accents and dialects tougher than others, and that is 100% because I avoided them until really late in the game. I like how I can talk to a Spanish speaker and guess where they are from based on accent or vocabulary that the use.

Jaleel10 wrote:I wanted to ask this very question a week ago :D I just did not know how to put it in words.

Piggy-backing on your post. An interesting question for those studying, speaking or have any experience Spanish. I am currently trying to improve my listening skills and someone recommend that I practice with Andalusian accents (which, for those who don't know Spanish, it is one of the hardest accents in the Spanish speaking world.) This is what my friend said
Since you will be exposing your ears to fast speech with incompletely enunciated words, your brain will eventually learn to fill in the blanks as needed. This skill will carry over to other similar speakers like Cubans and Venezuelans. Many Latin American accents will sound much clearer and slower in comparison after a while.


I kind of want to turn this into an 'experiment'. Would be very interested to see the results. There is a treasure trove of content to watch in Andalusian Spanish.


This is a great point and I believe I asked a question related to this before (it may have been its own thread or just a question I had related to listening comprehension). *Bonus points to anyone who can find the post*

If I remember correctly, I was under the impression that if I listened to a really hard accent in Spanish (for me a strong Cuban accent is tough) then all the other accents will be easy. I also figured that if I listened to enough fast talking Spaniards, then the slower talking Mexicans I worked with would be a lot easier to understand. I don't remember the exact responses I got, but I believe the general consensus was that you have to listen to different accents to get used to those accents, and that listening to a "tough accent" won't necessarily make the other accents easier. This wasn't the answer I wanted to hear and I hope there are people who will give me anecdotal evidence that supports what your friend told you about Andalusian Spanish 8-) :D :D
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Re: Training your ear/mouth for a specific dialect

Postby drp9341 » Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:49 pm

Jaleel10 wrote:I wanted to ask this very question a week ago :D I just did not know how to put it in words.

Piggy-backing on your post. An interesting question for those studying, speaking or have any experience Spanish. I am currently trying to improve my listening skills and someone recommend that I practice with Andalusian accents (which, for those who don't know Spanish, it is one of the hardest accents in the Spanish speaking world.) This is what my friend said
Since you will be exposing your ears to fast speech with incompletely enunciated words, your brain will eventually learn to fill in the blanks as needed. This skill will carry over to other similar speakers like Cubans and Venezuelans. Many Latin American accents will sound much clearer and slower in comparison after a while.


I kind of want to turn this into an 'experiment'. Would be very interested to see the results. There is a treasure trove of content to watch in Andalusian Spanish.




Could you give some information? I would be interested in starting to watch some stuff in Andalusian Spanish! Any and all resources you can find :)
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Jaleel10
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Re: Training your ear/mouth for a specific dialect

Postby Jaleel10 » Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:47 pm

drp9341 wrote:Could you give some information? I would be interested in starting to watch some stuff in Andalusian Spanish! Any and all resources you can find :)


* This is CanalSur. Everything Andalusia! It's crazy just how much content there is. https://www.youtube.com/user/canalsur. This should sort you out for the rest of your life :lol:

* This is a youtuber from Andalusia. https://www.youtube.com/user/MsAbiPower. I am not sure from which part but I think one of my friends told me she is from Córdoba. She is pretty good Youtuber. Funny and witty!
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